L L Lebret as clarinet maker?

Chris J

Chris J

Dear fountains of knowledge.....

I am trying to find out about the maker LL Lebret. I have posted on the clarinet BB but no takers, and am reluctant to bump my post eventhough it is about to disappear from view on the first page - so I thought I would have a go here......

I have bought a clarinet by this maker, though yet to receive it.

I have found out that Louis Leon Joseph Lebret was born in 1862 and made flutes. He set up a shop in 1888 in Paris specialising in metal Boehm flutes. The company was sold to Rene Celles in 1928, who passed it on to Robert Malerne in 1932. He seems to have been rather good at making flutes.

So the obvious question is - for a flute maker, could he do a half decent clarinet?

Also, might a clarinet continue to be made with his name on it after 1928 and beyond?

It is a standard 17/6 Boehm - and a restoration / repair project to keep me off the streets....

Any snippet of information, however vague (or disparaging) is welcome....

Chris
 
I can tell you one flute maker that made halfway decent clarinets: Wm. S. Haynes.

He patented the exceedingly rare and fairly valuable Thermocouple clarinet. There are pics and some other info in another thread.

Here's a pic of a Lebret clarinet.

Quick Googling indicates Lebret only made about 1000 flutes. That could mean the clarinets are rare in the sense of "uncommon". The above horn, for instance, is for sale at 160 Euros.

Further Googling indicates that post-1930's Lebret clarinets are a Malerne brand-name.

I'm not good enough at recognizing clarinet brands, yet. Steve may be along in a bit ....
 
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Pete

Thanks for that. Mine has cost less than half that one so I have not exactly taken a big risk with this. The one in the picture looked like it could do with a bit of oil! (the link didn't work, by the way, but I could see where it was heading when hovering the mouse over it)

So Steve, if you call into this thread and have any idea of telling how to differentiate LL Lebret instruments made by him as an independent from those when his name was just used as a Malerne brand I would be interested to know.

This also begs the question as to how long the brand name continued and whether it was given by Malerne to a certain grade of instruments.

Are there clues in the keywork of a Malerne clarinet that characterise them as such, or dates them? Might there be clues in the keywork that indicate my clarinet predates the Marlene takeover? I can post pictures when I actually get the clarinet.

Having googled Lebret and come across so many references to his flutes, I am very surprised he only made 1000. Did you get the impression that they were very highly regarded, or was I too selective in my reading!?...

Still, the proof of the pudding is in the blowing, and there might be some TLC due to the clarinet before I can tell if is a peach or a lemon....

Chris
 
I saw this thread when you originally posted it.

Truthfully, I'm clueless. I was hoping Pete would google stuff and bring back what is known. But I assumed what you outlined was probably more than what we could come up with.

Malerne has certain keywork items that indicate malernes which slightly vary between the student and professional model. So i'll look at the pics and tell you what I think ....

Highly rates clarinets for playing normally have a huge following, and demand high prices.

Case in reference the 1960s era Buffet R13s which are more highly rated than later or earlier R13s. R13s in general will demand prices above $900. Whereas the model just before the R13 demand prices in the $400 range. So a 1954 Buffet could be $400, an a 1955 Buffet could be $900 (from past ebay watchings)

So ..... this clarinet, if it was highly wanted would tout high prices. Malerne may have bought the company, or it was given to him for the machinery .... don't know. There were so many independent clarinet (and other) manufacturers before and after the wars as a way to rejuvanate the economies.
 
Further research indicates that Lebret clarinets stamped with "RM" near the Lebret sigil (it's toward the middle of the page) were made by Malerne before Lebret was sold to Malerne.

Yes, looks like Robert Malerne worked for Lebret.

I'll fix my other link in a moment.
 
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SteveSklar said:
Malerne has certain keywork items that indicate malernes which slightly vary between the student and professional model. So i'll look at the pics and tell you what I think ....
Click to expand...

Here are some pics to see if it helps identify as a Malerne stencil or not - and where it might lie on the student to professional scale. As you can see, there is much work to be done and is unplayable now but the wood looks good, the build looks solid, and it has post screws and screw adjustment on the A lever

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Chris
 
Looks like yer typical 17/6 to me. Wood used to be the material of which 80% of non-metal clarinets were made of, so the wood isn't, in and of itself, evidence of high quality.

The proof, of course is in the playing.
 
pete said:
Further research indicates that Lebret clarinets stamped with "RM" near the Lebret sigil (it's toward the middle of the page) were made by Malerne before Lebret was sold to Malerne.

Yes, looks like Robert Malerne worked for Lebret.
Click to expand...
Pete
This is really interesting. The Lebret logo in your link (you must use some magical google key words....) is very different from my logo.

lebretlogo.jpg


Interested to hear if Steve has any wise words on the keywork re Malerne stencil or not. If the Lebret logo around the time of the Malerne takeover was like the one in your link, and the keywork is not suggestive of Malerne, I assume the clarinet is pre 1928? There is no serial number.

SOTSDO - my comment of the wood meant I thought the wood had a good dense close grain and the bore is straight and not rough despite probably decades of neglect.

I am not hoping or expecting I have found a priceless treasure. I am just interested to know about the date of the instrument and the history behind it

Chris


Chris
 
off the top of my head it looks like a malerne Standard.

one key indicator is the top pad area of the lower joint.
the pad key has the arm angled up, and the bridge key. Plus these are not as nicely finished keywork as the professional version.

I recall a previous thread about Tammis' clarinet and it looked like the Malerne pro - but had to look at the keywork and the Pro keywork was more finely finished than the Standard. http://www.woodwindforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1529

I have a standard too one the shelves - actually two of them now that i think of it. One "standard" and the other Std has a metal sleeve in the upper joint. I'll have to check later for more detailed specifics

one of the other things i'm noticing with stencils too is the engraving .. thinking that the maker isn't about to have different tooling for different engraving. Thus .. theoretically malerne with their name engraving could be one of the makers. Another that uses that same typeface is Alexandre (Selmer) but he was probably out of production when this was made.
 
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Steve

Thanks for that information, so looks like after 1932 and a standard model.

I suppose the only thing left now is keep looking and see when Malerne stopped offering Lebret as a name to find the range of dates it may be from.

I wonder if there is more information about flutes than clarinets when it comes to Lebret? I think the Lebret flutes were more widely regarded than other Lebret marked instruments. Of course it is likely that the Lebret name was wound up on different instruments at different times.

Either way, that little part of France must have been a tangled web of finance and company deals when it came to instrument makers!...
 
Keys are off and a bit more information is apparent. Just below a post on the UJ and LJ there is "S6" stamped

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Chris
 
I agree that the keywork does not look as finely finished as a pro model.

Malerne was purchased by SML around 1975, so there's your maximum date range: 1932 to 1975.
 
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