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Question about Treble and Descant Recorder fingerings

Discussion in 'Recorders' started by Reverse Flash, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. Hi, I'm new here. I've just started learning the Recorder but already play other woodwind instruments. I have both a treble and descant recorder which I inherited. I also found quite an old recorder instruction book which deals mostly with the descant but has a small section on the treble at the end. In the book it says that when learning the treble, one of the main challenges is associating familiar fingerings with another set of note names. So the first hole and thumb would be E on the treble instead of B, and so on.

    My question is how up to date is this method? The book seems to have been written in 1969. Wouldn't it be simpler to just learn all the fingerings as the same notes but just have the music written in a different key, like it is done for a tenor and alto saxophone? For saxophones, one is in Bb and the other is in Eb, but the notes are exactly the same. You just transpose the music into a different key to match with concert pitch but only learn one set of fingering.

    If this method isn't used, then what is the reason for associating new note names to familiar fingering for the Recorder? That seems more complicated and more to remember. Could someone please explain? Thanks.
     
  2. pete

    pete Brassica Oleracea Staff Member Administrator

    Thanks for joining. I assume that a "Reverse Flash" is either the world's slowest superhero and/or someone that's getting dressed.

    My opinion on the fingerings: you can't make the thing with the same fingerings because of a) acoustics and b) you don't have machined keywork, like you do on a flute or sax. If you did have machined keywork, you could probably make all recorders have the same fingering, but I guarantee that the tone holes wouldn't be in a line. You'd have them offset quite a bit.

    Recorders have been around for a bazillion years. I've not done any research at all, but I suppose it's possible that baroque and other really old recorders have different fingerings from modern ones. These really old ones almost definitely have different intonation standards than modern instruments, which, simplified, means that they don't play in tune with modern instruments.

    For fingering charts, I let Google do the heavy lifting and found that there's an American Recorder Society. They have fingering charts and links to charts. I'd say they're your definitive answer.

    ==========

    Edit:
    A page on keyed recorders and other recorder design.
    The manufacturer website for one of those keyed recorders, more or less for you to reference the complexity of the idea. And the high cost (1900 Euro).
     
  3. Thanks for the reply. If I did try to learn the recorder as a transposing instrument, would the main problem I would run into be not being able to play music written specifically for the treble recorder because I've learnt all of it as descant fingering? Would it be too much like going according to a different calendar to the rest of the world?

    To make it simpler for me to just transpose in my head, what is the difference in interval between the descant (soprano) and treble (alto) recorder?

    Oh, and Reverse Flash is actually one of the arch enemies of the Flash and is even faster than him.
     
  4. I've no idea why they do that with recorders. It would certainly be easier to treat the alto as a transposing instrument. Unfortunately that isn't how it's done with recorders. It's not too hard for me, as a clarinet player, because the alto fingering is like playing the clarinet in the lower register and and soprano/tenor like playing in the upper register. (The clarinet overblows at a 12th rather than the octave).

    The difference between soprano and alto recorder is a 5th.

    Incidentally the bassoon is like the alto recorder too i.e XXX 000 = C.
     
  5. Gandalfe

    Gandalfe Administrator Staff Member Administrator

    Woah, Mr Dibbs. Maybe I will take a look at recorders again as a couple of years ago I picked up clarinet and I'd like to try this fingering tip you've mentioned.
     
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