Reed advice for double reedist starting out on clarinet

[piccolo8va]

Hi all,

I'm a flautist / bassoonist with a fair amount of muscle in the generalised embouchure area who has never played single reeds before. I've bought myself an old B&H (wooden) Regent clarinet and a 4c mouthpiece, but I have no idea of which reed strength might suit me. The tone on the clarinet feels a bit strangled to me - like when you play with too much pressure on a bassoon reed - do I need to move up from a 2 to something a bit more meaty?

All ideas gratefully received!

FD

 

[Dave Dolson]

FD: Welcome aboard. Reed quality and consistency varies hugely, even among same brands, cuts, and strengths. It is a crap-shoot until one discovers what reeds GENERALLY work the best on any one mouthpiece, THEN adjustments are made (usually with a knife) to bring chosen reeds into playing shape. At least that has been MY experience over 50 years of original-jazz playing (saxophone mostly, clarinet as a double).

For instance, I have two saxophone mouthpieces that play much better when I use Vandoren's ZZ #2 reeds, while my other good-playing mouthpieces require Vandoren's Java line or Alexander Superials. It isn't so much that other brands, cuts and strengths don't play for me, it is that the two I mentioned play well when placed on the appropriate mouthpieces, and I'm satisfied with the results. I arrived at this decision through years of experimenting.

For clarinet, I find that Fibracell synthetic reeds (#1 1/2 or SOFT) work best for me because my clarinet mouthpieces require much more reed than do my saxophone pieces. Fibracells for me are much stronger than comparable cane strengths.

We all differ in embouchure design and strength. The choice of reeds is solely yours and only you can make the decision. I recommend making the investment in several boxes of the most popular brands, cut and strengths and begin the process of weeding out those you like and don't like. Proper reed preparation will make them play better, too, so don't give up on a reed that plays okay but not brilliantly until you break it in and come back to it after a day or so.

I don't know what a 4C mouthpiece is - manufacturers all use different ways to designate tip openings, chamber size, and length of lay. I suspect it may be fairly closed - the GENERAL rule is that the closer the tip opening the harder the reed strength, so if #2's don't allow the piece to speak, maybe an increase in strength is warranted. DAVE

 

[Tammi]

Welcome!

First, if you didn't by the clarinet from a reputable music store get it in to a tech for a thorough check up. It could have a few 'issues' that should be addressed.

If the mouthpiece is a Yamaha 4C for clarinet.....throw it away.
Most of them are nasty at best. None of my students have had much success with them.
If you can, try a Larry Combs, Portnoy, Vandoren (just not the B45),
or Selmer C85.
Some others that are a little more affordable, yet better than the Yamaha are Fobes, Jewel (the Dave Knox version is wonderful), or Bundy.

A good starting point for reeds is about a 2.5.
Most of my beginners have good luck using Rico Royal, Vandoren Classic or Mitchell Lurie. Rico Orange box are ok if you have a tight budget.

 

[SOTSDO]

With a mouth used to being pursed around a reed and blowing, you probably have enough of a clamping ability to use something a bit stronger than a 2 strength, although (as noted above) all of the grading systems differ quite a bit.

If I was bringing you along, I would establish a benchmark with a known mouthpiece (not based so much on quality as just something commonly known by the given teacher), and then work the reed choices from that standpoint. There are mouthpiece equivalence charts around (Woodwind & Brasswind has one on line, I think), and it would be easier for some of us to give advice if we knew what the B & H mouthpiece was compared to others that are more common (at least over here, where B & H equipment is rather thin on the ground.

Rather than buying reeds by the box-ful at first, purchase a "bracket" of strengths in the given brand (i.e., one #2, one #2 1/2, one #3, and so forth), then find out what works with the benchmark mouthpiece. Once you get it refined down and are comfortable with a given mouthpiece and reed strength, then it's time to start comparing the merits of cane versus synthetic, and of individual brands.

(I've made a powerful effort to get along with Legere reeds, having purchased a spread of them for bass clarinet, clarinet and baritone sax. However, the things and I just do not get along. They "fade" on me very quickly, and the edges of the reed have a tendency to tear up my lip tissue. Your mileage may vary, of course.)

One additional caution here, though. Make sure that you get a few solid hours of time with a trained clarinetist on an occasional basis, not some saxophone guy who "picked it up" on his own. I have worked with any number of "self taught" clarinet players who aren't even aware of some of the most basic clarinet technique.

This is not a slam on those who are self taught - the same thing applies in my case to crossing over to saxophone. (Being self-taught, I still don't "get" the bis key.) It's just that playing the clarinet is a different sort of craft compared to playing the saxophone or bassoon, and a lot of the schtick on a particular horn is best learned by emulation, rather than self-exploration.

 

[Dave Dolson]

Terry: I understand the downside to buying BOXES of reeds (cost), but I've experienced SUCH inconsistency among reeds that a sample from each brand, cut, and strength doesn't reveal much, at least in my view.

You run the risk of selecting only bad players and thus disregarding a brand/style that may work really well when you select the one or two in the box that play well right from the git-go. Conversely, you may select the best one by chance and then wonder when you do buy a box why most of a whole box stink.

I agree about taking a lesson or more from a trained clarinetist. I am self-taught and realize it.

As far as tossing that 4C or Vandoren B45 mouthpiece - Tammi's choice may not be your choice. I'd advise against tossing anything until you develop your clarinet chops and can make an informed decision. I have a Vandoren B45 clarinet piece that works fine for me. I have a couple of soprano saxophone mouthpieces marked 4C (one Yamaha and another no-name) and they too play okay - not the best for me, but okay. Mouthpiece recommendations are very subjective - and personal. DAVE

 

[Gandalfe]

'kay so we have the following recommendations:

1. Sit with a qualified woodwind instructor for at least one or two sessions
2. Buy and 2.5 and 3 (med soft, med) reed before lesson
3. Get a good recommendation for possible mouthpieces from instructor
4. Get suggestion for reeds to buy.
​

My instructor usually brings in mouthpieces for me to try and he's been very good at getting close if not right on to what I eventually picked.

 

[saxplayer1004]

I've got a good Selmer HS** that I'll let go for pretty cheap if you're looking for mouthpieces.

Clarinets seems to like thicker reeds. They get a clearer tone and respond much better. This is rather hard for me to get used to when doubling since I use softer reeds for sax, and med-soft ish reeds for bassoon.

The advantage you'll have is that since you're a double reed player, you have most likely learned how to modify reeds properly, and that will come in handy with single reeds. As mentioned by some of the other guys, single reeds are notorious for being horridly inconsistent.

 

[Tammi]

Please note the Evil smiley in my response.

I also suggested only trying a few other mouthpieces. The brands and models are ones that I have tried and had excellent results with, or my students have used with excellent results. In my personal experience, the Yamaha 4C mouthpiece for clarinet has not been "student" friendly. My private students improved by leaps and bounds after replacing it with a different, 'higher quality' mouthpiece. The OP may have the best results with the one they already have.

Flute/Double reed chops and clarinet chops are 2 very different animals.
The OP is still a "beginner" and should start on clarinet the same way someone in the 5th or 6th grade would. Unless I'm confused.
I haven't been playing or teaching quite as long, so it's very possible.

 

[Ed]

Two general pieces of advice.

Pick up The Art of Clarinet for some general tips.

Pick up a couple of reeds in 2.5, 3, 3.5, and 4. Prepare the reeds as described in The Art of Clarinet and see what feels most comfortable on the mouthpiece. Hold onto the reeds as you will go through this process again when you pick up a better mouthpiece down the road.