Anybody play one of the RSR (ebonite) low C bass clarinets yet?
RSR Low C Bass Clarinet
- Thread starter MartinMods
- Start date
I'd say they hadn't, but, at that price, that may be asking too much. While pretty much unplayable as purchased new, and still so, after 3 different regulation/repair attempts by the local tech, it arrived at my door. Just as many consumers are thrilled with the the end results of buying a cheap, sloppy Harbor Freight lathe or mill, stripping it down, replacing some select parts, and hand fitting everything back together, this low C bass clarinet may prove to be a very playable, inexpensive instrument, after some minor design modifications. I'll post some picts and descriptions in the next few days.
So it's kind of a "kit" then? ;-)
It's more, "raw material". The main issues are:
1. Adjusting screw design: The end of each of the 8 adjusting screws on the upper joint, presses against bumpers covered with soft cork. The not-too-blunt end of each screw immediately compresses the cork while the sliding motion of most, simply tears it. It is impossible for the mechanism to maintain adjustment and there and too much friction for it to be smooth and responsive. Solution: I soldered a flat, threaded, 3.5mm diameter bumper disk onto the end of each screw and replaced the soft cork with composite cork. Now the upper joint mechanism is tight, responsive, and fast.
2. Lower Joint Lever Mechanism: The 10, plastic bushing on cork, lower joint lever couplings are impaired by excess friction to the point where some of the pad cups won't even open completely. Solution: I made 10 simple sleeve rollers out of telescoping brass tubing and threaded, locking nuts, soldered on. Some simple machining was required. Now the entire mechanism is tight and snappy.
The padding on these is good.
When I finish with the neck, I'll report on how it plays.
1. Adjusting screw design: The end of each of the 8 adjusting screws on the upper joint, presses against bumpers covered with soft cork. The not-too-blunt end of each screw immediately compresses the cork while the sliding motion of most, simply tears it. It is impossible for the mechanism to maintain adjustment and there and too much friction for it to be smooth and responsive. Solution: I soldered a flat, threaded, 3.5mm diameter bumper disk onto the end of each screw and replaced the soft cork with composite cork. Now the upper joint mechanism is tight, responsive, and fast.
2. Lower Joint Lever Mechanism: The 10, plastic bushing on cork, lower joint lever couplings are impaired by excess friction to the point where some of the pad cups won't even open completely. Solution: I made 10 simple sleeve rollers out of telescoping brass tubing and threaded, locking nuts, soldered on. Some simple machining was required. Now the entire mechanism is tight and snappy.
The padding on these is good.
When I finish with the neck, I'll report on how it plays.
I like knowing what people are talking about. Here's a linky: http://www.rsrwinds.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=36
I saw a couple of woodwind.org posts saying that the horns aren't that great. However, it's $1500 and not $8000.
The "Orpheo" brand is $1700 or so and is made of hard rubber. May or may not be better than the RSR. There's also the Ridenour for $2900.
I think the question is really, "Which is the best low price horn and how much $ and time will it cost to make the thing play like a decent instrument?" When I hear "design modifications needed," I think "big $."
I saw a couple of woodwind.org posts saying that the horns aren't that great. However, it's $1500 and not $8000.
The "Orpheo" brand is $1700 or so and is made of hard rubber. May or may not be better than the RSR. There's also the Ridenour for $2900.
I think the question is really, "Which is the best low price horn and how much $ and time will it cost to make the thing play like a decent instrument?" When I hear "design modifications needed," I think "big $."
Their web site is somewhat - ahem - less than helpful. However, the only non-harmony clarinet that I could find was a "crystal" Bb soprano for all of $400. Curiously, there were listings for A, C and Eb clarinets, but nothing under each of those headings.
Having to invest time to make something work (as in the Harbor Freight examples given above) means different things to different people. For example, I am as retired from daily concerns as I can be, so having to (as an example) come up with a custom mount for my wife's XM Radio antenna wasn't a big problem for me, even though it cost me perhaps $10.00 in materials in addition to some ten hours of time.
(We have a house with the master "suite" on the north side, but XM's antenna have to face south. I ended up constructing a "radar" dome housing atop a half-inch pipe support that snakes upward and around the guttering to obtain a clear southward view. My suggestion that she sleep in the storage bedroom on the south side of the house was not well received. The XM Radio signal currently is...)
Had I still been unretired, I wouldn't have taken all the time that this solution took. (And, for now, it's only a temporary one - ultimately I'm going to drill through the brick wall and mount a different one when I get the time.) So, my time is available at a discount, as it were.
Having said all of that, I'd not be willing to literally rebuild a clarinet in the fashion described above on the speculation that the end result "might" be a winner. With the products of one of the big five (Boosey-Hawkes, Yamaha, Buffet, Leblanc, and Selmer), you would at least be reasonably certain of coming up with an "adequate" instrument. (And, I might add, the key work would be pretty decent to start with, thus eliminating much of the soldering and fitting noted above.)
So, as a hobby project, just to see if it could be done? Maybe, if the horn came to me at salvage prices. But, paying some price over a thousand dollars for one, when a proven horn like a used Selmer bass can be had for a similar price on eBay? Nope.
And, that's without addressing the whole "extended range" bass clarinet question. I'm willing to debate that one at great length, but not just now.
Having to invest time to make something work (as in the Harbor Freight examples given above) means different things to different people. For example, I am as retired from daily concerns as I can be, so having to (as an example) come up with a custom mount for my wife's XM Radio antenna wasn't a big problem for me, even though it cost me perhaps $10.00 in materials in addition to some ten hours of time.
(We have a house with the master "suite" on the north side, but XM's antenna have to face south. I ended up constructing a "radar" dome housing atop a half-inch pipe support that snakes upward and around the guttering to obtain a clear southward view. My suggestion that she sleep in the storage bedroom on the south side of the house was not well received. The XM Radio signal currently is...)
Had I still been unretired, I wouldn't have taken all the time that this solution took. (And, for now, it's only a temporary one - ultimately I'm going to drill through the brick wall and mount a different one when I get the time.) So, my time is available at a discount, as it were.
Having said all of that, I'd not be willing to literally rebuild a clarinet in the fashion described above on the speculation that the end result "might" be a winner. With the products of one of the big five (Boosey-Hawkes, Yamaha, Buffet, Leblanc, and Selmer), you would at least be reasonably certain of coming up with an "adequate" instrument. (And, I might add, the key work would be pretty decent to start with, thus eliminating much of the soldering and fitting noted above.)
So, as a hobby project, just to see if it could be done? Maybe, if the horn came to me at salvage prices. But, paying some price over a thousand dollars for one, when a proven horn like a used Selmer bass can be had for a similar price on eBay? Nope.
And, that's without addressing the whole "extended range" bass clarinet question. I'm willing to debate that one at great length, but not just now.
This is actually one of the reasons why I wasn't jumping for joy when the new C melody tenors came out (not the Eppelsheim-designed C soprano). Yah, they have Selmer-style keywork, but you have to reposition the octave pips to make it play in tune? I don't want to spend the time on that -- or have a repairman spend the time for me. I'll just look for, say, a nice Buescher that just needs a repad.
However, I am interested in hearing how the three horns I mention stack up to each other THEN how they stack up against one of those $8K horns.
Of course, this is aside from the fact that in the years I used the bass, I never had any call to need anything lower than an E ....
However, I am interested in hearing how the three horns I mention stack up to each other THEN how they stack up against one of those $8K horns.
Of course, this is aside from the fact that in the years I used the bass, I never had any call to need anything lower than an E ....
I make that argument all of the time, but there's always someone who chimes in with "Hey, I use it all of the time!" However, my argument is directed at the average user (the bass clarinet is not in high demand for jazz gigs...), who seldom dips to the low Eb, much less to the extension. Paying all of that extra dough for nought is just not good practice.
This low C bass is a Barrington (from Woodwind and Brasswind), but I would guess nearly identical to most of the other cheap Chinese basses out there, like RSR, Orpheo, etc. I have seen a few differences in keywork, especially on the right thumb keys, but they seem to be very similar overall.
You are correct. It does say Barrington on the case, and just barely on the bell. I think I may have been confused by the youtube links you sent me of the RSR cat on the crystal mouthpiece. The other RH thumb keys may look different, and no wonder, because on yours, they brazed the spatulas...........upside-down
. Yes, they did. Small matter. I think the horn will be worth it.Not everyone want's a low C bass clarinet, but for anyone aspiring to be a serious doubler, it's a good thing to have. If you play a lot of bass clarinet parts, it's nice to be able to play those low notes, even when not written, as often, the arranger wanted them in the first place.
I owned two Selmer low C bass clarinets, and used them frequently in the recording studio. Even these needed to be "fixed" (regulated and tone hole tuning/voicing work) to be really playable. For classical playing I'd go with a Buffet. For commercial/big/band/studio work, the best I've heard is the German system.
I've tried for many years to get my hands on a German system bass to test the assumption that the tone is more sonorous and all of that, but they are thin on the ground out in flyover land, and I've neither the time nor the inclination to make a trip to the Old Country just for that.
Sigh...
Sigh...
I (alto/bari/piccolo/flute/clarinet) sit next to the BC player on this recording:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoNv_2j3HHw
He comes in around 1:04. His setup was a little bright for my taste, but he could really cut through a full studio orchestra.
I'm hearing all the noodling he was doing between takes. There's a fine difference. The narrower bore and longer mouthpiece chamber of the Oehler system give the sound a little more punch and flexibility, though not as full perhaps. Like the German, commercial soprano clarinetists (e.g. Hugo Strasser - and, as opposed to the classical players who use the string lig/heavy reed), the lighter reed set-up gives them something, compared to the Boehm Selmer/Leblanc/etc, that I would describe as, the difference between a Mk6 and a good Super 20, IMO - brighter, more responsive, yet a bit shallower in tonal depth - it records well.
Here are the mod picts:
Adjusting Screw Bumper Disks
Lever Linkage (original - fixed plastic bumper on cork)
Lever Linkage (modified - brass sleeve roller on cork)
Adjusting Screw Bumper Disks
Lever Linkage (original - fixed plastic bumper on cork)
Lever Linkage (modified - brass sleeve roller on cork)
Or at least use a better sliding material than cork. As much as I like cork, but it doesn't slide nor does it resist shearing forces particularly well. A teflon strip instead of that cork on the arm - same work, and maybe 1¢ more expensive material...
And he's still going strong. Saw him with Max Gregor last year. Absoutely superb!!! On that and the alto sax...
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