Straight vs. Curved Necks

Dave Dolson

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
I thought about putting this under "Yanagisawa" because my comments are about that brand.

Lately, I've been using my Yanagisawa SC902 soprano (the previous-model curved sop in bronze) and receiving a few accolades from our loyal fans. I've used this horn many times over the years since I bought it new and frankly, from in front (or when listening to recordings I've made with it) the horn sounds like a soprano - not curved, not straight - just a soprano saxophone. If anything, it sounded to me to be a bit harsh when compared to my straight sops. Maybe my ears' distance from the bells was the reason.

One time on SOTW I got into it big-time with a noted professor of saxophone and a highly regarded source for all things saxophone over the tonal qualities of curved sops compared to straight sops (throw in tipped bells and Saxellos if you want).

I've owned them all and I am still not convinced that one sounds different than the other, save for the differences all saxophones have, as heard by the player. The professor seemed to resent that I disagreed with his assertion that curved sops and straight sops sounded different.

Still, lately I've been using a solid-silver Yanagisawa straight neck (with a Morgan Vintage #6 HR mouthpiece and a variety of ligs) on it and I do hear some differences from behind the horn. It sure makes for a conversation piece - that little curved soprano with the straight neck.

In my experience, the neck's material is a non-issue - I have straight and curved bronze necks and a solid-silver curved neck (all Yanagisawa brand) and it is the design of the neck, not the material that changes the horn's sound.

Further, some folks in the audience have commented that they really like the more mellow (one guy described it as "rounder") sound of the curved Yanagisawa compared to my straight sops (Buescher TT, and Yanagisawa S992 and S901, mainly).

The straight neck really opens up the horn. I can hear that as the player, even if the intonation is slightly more difficult. With the stock curved neck, the SC902 has an almost perfect scale (to my ear anyway) but like curved necks on straight sopranos, the sound seems slightly muffled when I use the stock neck. One player in our audience commented that my intonation was spot-on as I played a Bechet tune (using the straight neck), so I'm guessing the straight neck's intonation is not all THAT bad - just a bit more difficult as I said above.

The point of all this? Something to post - and something for others to consider if they have a modern curved soprano - a straight neck may make it better. DAVE
 
I bought one of the first Yani curved sopranos I ever saw, marked Martin. Loved the horn, but high E, F, and F# (palm keys) were a little flat for me.

A few years later I noticed that the curved Yanagisawa sopranos had a neck that didn't curve as much, and the octave key had become underslung. I bought one of the new straighter (but not straight) necks and it solved all intonation problems. I still play the same horn.
 
I pretty much agree with Dave on this. Another data point. For a time I owned a wonderful Keilwerth straight alto (SX-90). I played it on a big band gig for a set and played another horn the second set. All of the players said they could hear me just fine and the audience could hear me but I could not hear me! When I played against a wall or a large window it sounded just like any other Keilwerth alto.

Another story.

At one point while I was sorting out my Mark VI tenor, I picked up a second neck for it. I really thought I preferred the other neck (110k serial number neck on a 170k serial number horn). I mean I could tell a difference in response. I played for some people and they could not tell the difference. I thought they were nuts so I recorded my playing with both necks in my home studio. I could not tell the difference between the necks. Sold the 110k neck.
 
Ed Svoboda said:
second neck for it. I really thought I preferred the other neck (110k serial number neck on a 170k serial number horn). I mean I could tell a difference in response. I played for some people and they could not tell the difference. I thought they were nuts so I recorded my playing with both necks in my home studio. I could not tell the difference between the necks. Sold the 110k neck.
Click to expand...

The neck can make a big difference one way or another. Sometimes the difference is from behind the horn.

My Mark vi tenor plays way better with the Ref 54 neck. Response and intonation are much better. But I hear no tonal differences. It sounds the same, but plays more easily.

The Ref, on the other hand, doesn't like its own neck. The upper notes are stuffy and not always reliable. I play a Barone neck on it, and the problems go away.

I had a YTS 82ZU with serious intonation issues from D3 up. Almost a half tone sharp without strong embouchure corrections. (It had the new neck that was supposed to address that problem.) I put a YTS-23 neck on, and the problem went away. But the tone was too thin.
 
(Sorry, I guess this thread got carjacked.)
 
Not a problem for me, Al. Threads seem to take logical turns - much ado about nothing (this hi-jacking deal).

The stock curved neck that came with my SC902 has more curvature than does the curved neck that came with my S992. Both curved necks have the hinge on the underside of the neck but the vent on top. That is a good thing because on my S901 (a fixed-neck straight soprano) the upper-octave vent is on the bottom half of the tube and fills with moisture after playing for a while, cutting out the upper register when that happens. I sure wish I could come up with a fix for that because of all the Yanagisawa sopranos I own (or have owned), I like the S901 the best. But with that octave vent filling closed, I don't play the horn much.

I too once owned a JK straight alto. Weird duck, that one. With the bell at my shins, it was difficult to hear (for me) but everyone out front said they could hear it fine (and I asked specifically about that).

I think the straight neck on that curved soprano really changes the way the horn sounds - and plays - much for the better, at least for me. DAVE
 
OK, I'm sticking my "neck" out here, but I think that the curvature of the neck, all other variables being equal, affects the intonation because of the dimensions of the tube. More on that later.

I think that the curvature of the neck affects the sound (tone) because of the angle at which the player addresses the mouthpiece. I.E., the straight neck tends to encourage the player to take more reed into the mouth, probably making the sound brighter.

Because of a fairly complicated physical reason, a curved tube, whether cylindrical or conical, behaves as though the tube "bulges" during the curve. In the sensitive area of the neck, the curve can affect intonation noticeably.
 
Hi Dave

A straight vs. curved saxophone can definitely sound different to whoever is playing it. For actual differences, I imagine there shouldn't really be any at least down to the bow notes, unless the manufacture of the body makes some difference (i.e. they are done on different mandrels, etc.). In reality, I doubt there is any fundamental difference that is significant, as long as they consider the changes from the bow and bell .

I've tried a straight alto saxophone from both Keilwerth and R&C. I also compared them with regular altos from those companies. They definitely sounded different to me when I was playing them, but when I listened to someone else play them, I couldn't say there was a meaningful difference that is unlike comparing two regular altos. When several people heard a recording of the straight Keilwerth, no one (including high level slto players) heard anything that made them think there was something unusual about it. When they were told it was a straight alto, eventhough there is a psychological tendency to "suddenly hear a difference", they still thought it sounded the same.

I personally never liked straight altos because of the strange way they sound to the player and also less comfortable to hold. So I prefer regular altos. However I prefer straight sopranos because for some reason they are more comfortable to me. I know one teacher who sometimes start young students on curved sopranos if they too small for something else. I only heard one of his students but it seemed like a good idea when I saw the kid play it.

As far as soprano necks, I'd say I see about 50/50 using straight vs. curved. Most who play the curved do because it's more comfortable to them. I don't think the angle changes much to the mouth, but they mostly change the angle they hold the instrument. When I hear someone test both curved and straight soprano necks, there is usually anywhere from slight to no difference.

I should soon have a soprano with two necks, and get a good recording device. I planned to do some tests for recordings anyway so maybe I'll do a recording of the straight vs. curved and see what others hear. For example play three samples, two on the same neck and one on the other neck. Then see if people can consistently identify the odd one.

Here is a photo of the straight R&C (with some others).

rampone_sax1.jpg
 
Nitai: I generally agree - from out front, it is a rare person indeed who could listen blindfolded and identify a saxophone's shape or neck. I did a recording a while back using my curved soprano and when listening to it a year later, even I couldn't hear any differences. It was only that I remembered using the curved soprano (this time with the stock curved neck) during the session.

In case there may be some confusion, I'm using a straight neck on a curved soprano. I find the straight neck provides a bigger, fuller sound with almost equal intonation. But, I hear and feel the same improvements when I put a straight neck on my straight sopranos - the straight neck just gives a bigger, fuller sound to my straight sops. DAVE
 
Many small variables contribute to how a sax sounds to the player. For example, I can hear a distinctive difference in the tone of my tenor when I am sitting with it at my side and standing with it in front.

It has to do with where your head is in relation to the many places that sound comes out of the sax. And what parts of your body and clothes that sound bounces off of between its origin and your ears.

You can measure such differences by recording your sax with two identical mics, one at the bell opening and one at the side tone holes. Record to two tracks. Then compare the tracks independently.
 
Yes, that is true. However, when I hold the curvy in the same position and use the two different necks (curved and straight) the difference in sound (and openness) is clearly evident. The same is true with my straight sopranos with curved and straight necks.

In my opinion, the differences are from the necks, not my position in relationship to the instruments. DAVE
 
I have no first hand soprano experience to speak of, since neither my Mark VI nor my vintage Conn curvy have detachable necks, but I have played around after market necks with my Mark VI tenor. Since I replaced my stock neck with a Goodson-designed Masterpiece neck in 2000, not only did it brighten the sound like I wanted it to, it improved a number of the quirky notes that saxes are known for. For example the airiness of A2 is gone.

Not being familiar with either the horn you play Dave, nor the necks available for it, I can't comment specifically. However, generally I would have to agree with what others have already said here that necks can make a huge difference in both sound and in some cases intonation. It only makes sense. If for example, you have a sax with a mismatched neck, there is a good chance the sax will not play in tune. By that I mean if say you take a Selmer Paris horn and jam a Martin Handcraft neck into it, chances are its intonation will be off. :emoji_rage:

I'm not even going to dip my toe into the waters of does a curved horn sound different than a straight one of the same flavor? There are just too many variables at play.
 
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Helen: Several years ago I bought a Yanagisawa 880 alto and was advised by the dealer to buy an aftermarket Selmer MKVII neck for it. I took his advice and found that the MKVII neck was a real improvement over the stock Yanagisawa neck. I KNOW necks make a difference. DAVE
 
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