The Overhaul Crisis

[tictactux]

So I have an instrument that I intend to sell.

It needs some work. I guess that when I perform this work myself (which I am not doing professionally (ie I don't repair for a living), I'm going to get a higher price, but probably not enough to justify the amount of time put in.

If I invest four hours in it and am lucky enough to make $100 more then I'm not going to do it, especially if the buyer says "I'm giving it to my tech anyway" or "I'm a tech myself", or when the current "market" price for an instrument of brand XYZ is within a bandwidth that leaves not much freedom for a touch-up.

Then again, I'm not the guy to sell half-baked bread (giving something for free is different, of course) and would be embarrassed to mail something unfinished that could be confused with my own work. Hobby or not, there's a certain pride involved.

Oh well.

 

[pete]

I generally look at it like this:

I charge $100 an hour as a computer tech (I've finally increased my rates), 1 hour minimum, for computer problems. If it takes more than an hour and the improvement wouldn't be $100 worth, it's not worth it to me or anyone. This is one of the reasons I have a lot of problems with working on older (5 years or so) computers: virtually any hardware problem isn't worth fixing.

I really do think that it has to be worth it to do the repairs.

 

[tictactux]

I really do think that it has to be worth it to do the repairs.

Sure, but in that case this is not the issue.
It's more like "$600, needs pads and cleaning" or "$800, ready to play", when there are four hours' work in there.
Now, which one sells easier? Would I be just wasting my time padding and polishing?

Maybe I should make it "$1200 including a free reed and a 6-piece steak knife set."

 

[Steve]

One major problem is People's definition of "playable" is all over the board unless you offer a warranty, etc.

I normally tell people to sell things "as-is" as most people farm out repair work and end up losing alot of money. Just in december i saw a pre-R13 Buffet clarinet sell for $220ish after an overhaul from a respective store in Washington. fyi ... the pre-R13s avg price suddenly dropped on eBay along with the economy and subsequently i saw very few of them.

Then there are the other "self techs" who are always looking for cheaper and cheaper supplies to try and increase profitability and make their repair work easier.

So the problem is multiple in that you are trying to sell an instrument in a market where the quality is scattered all over the place and unless it is sold with a guarantee of some type from a respectable place it seems like a futile effort.

That is unless the instrument is currently a complete disaster.

Personally I got tired of fielding questions from people who have a mediocre instrument trying to tell me since it is vintage that it is as good or better in value and quality sound than an R13, thus I created this page
http://clarinetperfection.com/ClarinetValue.htm

 

[Gandalfe]

Profit margins in instruments are normally very slim for the hobbyist. (Even less in computer hardware.) I guess you can get lucky sometimes but to try to eek out a living selling used instrument? Yikes!

Many techs that I work with have second jobs, like giving lessons (Sarge of Worldwide Saxes for example), teaching at universities (like AltoMatt) and getting paid to perform (Paul Woltz, Sarge, and altoMatt). And if it's just a hobby, maybe profit isn't the driving force?

 

[tictactux]

And if it's just a hobby, maybe profit isn't the driving force?

Profit isn't the driving force at all. I'd just hate it to waste two hours on something that as such is not wanted.

Reminds me of our honeymoon. We were in *** which was lovely but the bed (especially for newlyweds) was creaky and not very comfy. So each afternoon we'd disassemble the bed, put the mattress to the floor, and in the morning reassemble everything. During the day the maid would neatly make the bed, and first thing in the late afternoon would be ... you get the idea. ;-)

 

[Steve]

....... And if it's just a hobby, maybe profit isn't the driving force?

Would I be just wasting my time padding and polishing?

I think that's up to Ben to decide.

Of course many places that sell used instrument may hold on to them for quite some time waiting for the appropriate buyer. It also depends upon how quickly you want to sell something.

There's no real answer here as it's his time and investment put into the instruments. And even then so, he may be thinking of a price and end up selling it for less ..... plus, we don't even know what he's selling. He could have bought an unplayable, dirt covered mk VI for cheap versus a partially mangled CSO stencil ....

 

[MartinMods]

If the work you do isn't pro quality, then you will eventually run into problems if you list it as "just overhauled", and charge for it. In your case, I would invest enough time and materials to get it to play reliably, make good video demo of yourself playing it, provide lots of good pictures showing everything of interest and concern, and, mentioning that even though it is in the demonstrated playable condition, it sells "as is", since it is not absolutely perfect.

 

[Gandalfe]

If the work you do isn't pro quality, then you will eventually run into problems if you list it as "just overhauled", and charge for it. In your case, I would invest enough time and materials to get it to play reliably, make good video demo of yourself playing it, provide lots of good pictures showing everything of interest and concern, and, mentioning that even though it is in the demonstrated playable condition, it sells "as is", since it is not absolutely perfect.

There was a fellow who sold a Mark VI on eBay like that recently. It sold in the first listing because (I suspect) he was a musician and you really got a feel for the instrument.

I often wish people like QuinntheEskimo would include a video of the instrument being played. But as he is a diploma'd musician, he knows that a great musician can make almost any instrument sound good, even if it needs serious work. (I should wander down the hall and ask him.)

 

[MartinMods]

I often wish people like QuinntheEskimo would include a video of the instrument being played.

From time to time he includes audio clips, performed by Seattle's fine jazz tenorist, Rich Cole.......who by the way, (just a little side note here) after 30? years on a Mk6, and just a few minutes on a The Martin Tenor, will soon be taking possession of his MM, THE MARTIN "Ultimate" TENOR, fully modded. I'm sure there will be a comprehensive review, in the appropriate thread.

 

[tictactux]

I think that's up to Ben to decide.

Hmm - and if I decided to get rid of say my surplus Marigaux in here? This is a reather specialist group, perfectly able to take care of themselves, so I don't need all these magic words, those soothing testimonials, the free steak knives. And I feel more like a proxy than a seller or a fulfiller of dreams.

This is new territory - specialist markets. How do I behave in there?

 

[Steve]

tell the truth

if you plan selling the Marigaux clarinet I still would recommend selling it "as-is" When people ask me about their Buffets about what to do it is always better to sell "as-is".

unless ....

If the instrument is in a very "dirty" state then cleaning it up etc would then have a value. I bought one of my Buffet As for about $250ish simply because it looked like someone rubbed dirt all over it. I'm sure now with it looking all nice and shiny and the wood a lusterious black it would sell for much more.

So it all depends upon the situation and condition.

 

[tictactux]

tell the truth

Steve, look, I'm tossing that bone a bit forth and back, not sure where I'd sink my teeth into.

I am quite positive that I can turn this (or any other reasonably "used") instrument into serviceable condition. Maybe I will. It would certainly give me great pleasure to buff the silver, glue pads in, inspect the bore, file cork and whatnot.

Which would steal money from someone who'd have his/her own ideas, a concept that I wholeheartedly understand. Most in here can look beneath the dirt, see what no man has seen before, and have their own ways of "making friends" with a new acquisition.

I know, I could just put it into some webby thingy and add a virtual price sticker over $xyz on it and wait if someone bites. But I'd rather learn something with it - what would be the motivation for a pro, for a noob, for a collector? Why and why not?
And it's not about making heaps of money, I am content with what I have.

 

[tictactux]

But I'd rather learn something with it - what would be the motivation for a pro, for a noob, for a collector? Why and why not?

I mean, they can bury live swine in avalanches, so I can have my go at unsuspecting honkerers as well, can't I?

 

[pete]

I'd be interested in that "surplus" Marigaux .

 

[Steve]

....
I am quite positive that I can turn this (or any other reasonably "used") instrument into serviceable condition. Maybe I will. It would certainly give me great pleasure to buff the silver, glue pads in, inspect the bore, file cork and whatnot.
.....

Then do it. it is pleasureable to bring an instrument up to snuff and seeing what your hard work has done.

Originally we didn't know what kind of instrument you were talking about .. but now we know it's your new Marigaux acquisition. I'd say do it because you have a fine example in your main player ... great for comparisons.

I'd love to play one of those Marigaux too .... lovely instruments

 

[pete]

FWIW, there are two kinds of folks that buy musical instruments on eBay -- well, there are probably more, but I'll concentrate on two: the folks that are trying to get a cheap horn that works, out of box, and those who buy a horn that they think they can repair and make into a fabulous instrument.

I'm in the former camp. When I've been in the market for a horn, that is.

Of course, if I saw an SBA low A bari for $200 that needed minor repair, I'd be all over that, but I'm really not that interested in buying a horn that doesn't work. Never have. So, if a repair person is selling a horn on eBay and says, "This Marigaux clarinet is $500. If you want it overhauled, it's an extra $250," I'd be all over that -- because I don't want to have to fool around with the overhaul.

In other words, if you can set up an auction that way -- i.e. "Winning bidder can pay $ for a complete overhaul that includes ...." -- that'd be great. Just don't do an overhaul until the person pays.

 

[DavidW]

You could price the instruments either way. 1 price for as is, now, and another for play condition with enough time built in to perform the work.

 

[tictactux]

Rest assured - if I'm going to sell it outside my private realm, I'll do it here first. My #1 motivation to buy it was to prevent it from ending in some collector's vault, not a quick dollar. Heck, such an instrument deserves to be played.

 

[Steve]

Rest assured - if I'm going to sell it outside my private realm, I'll do it here first. My #1 motivation to buy it was to prevent it from ending in some collector's vault, not a quick dollar. Heck, such an instrument deserves to be played.

so now we know more of the motivation !! :-D

so I assume you aren't going to keep it for yourself ?