Why aren't saxes considered a part of a woodwind quintet?

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

They're just as much of a woodwind as any other woodwind. Yeah, horns blend into the woodwinds even though it's a brass, but their cues are usually played by saxes (at least in my concert bands) anyway. And saxes sound a lot like other woodwinds. I'm surprised I've never seen this topic brought up before.

 

[Al Stevens]

They're not made out of wood?

 

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

Aha, but neither are (most) flutes and horns!;-) And of course plastic and metal oboes, clarinets and bassoons. And AFAIK, woodwinds are not woodwinds because of the material of their bodies. It's the fact that they use a reed. Btw, reeds aren't wood! I don't know how that works though. I should have put more in my original post.

 

[Groovekiller]

I agree with the idea of saxophone in the woodwind quintet. Although woodwind quintets are written with the sound of the French Horn in mind, maybe it's time to use a saxophone instead.

With all due respect to my horn player friends, it does indeed depend on the saxophone player involved.

 

[Merlin]

There was actually a movement among French composers to starting writing pieces for "sextour a vent" which was a standard WW quintet plus an alto sax.

The problem with just subbing in an alto is that horn parts often use a larger tessitura, especially towards the lower end of the instrument. Tenor sax is a better choice for the pitch range that tends to be needed.

Unfortunately, finding a tenor player with the chops and taste to blend with the other woodwinds means this rarely happens.

On a side note, I've often thought about forming a concert ensemble (my take on a more compact version of a concert band or wind ensemble). The instrumentation would be a brass quintet+WWquintet+sax quartet+string bass and a percussionist. Sixteen people altogether, and quite likely able to play just about anything a concert band could - but tighter. Even better if the sax players were doublers.

Just think of the potential:

two trumpets (doubling flugel)
two horns
trombone (doubling euphonium)
tuba (w/bass trombone double)
Flute/picc
oboe/EH
clarinet/bass clarinet
bassoon
Soprano (potentially doubling flute and clarinet)
Alto (doubling flute/clarinet)
Tenor doubling clarinet
Bari (doubling clarinet/bass clarinet)
percussionist
string bass

Even without the doubles in the saxes, that's a group with tremendous flexibility.

One of these days...

 

[Al Stevens]

Aha, but neither are (most) flutes and horns!;-) And of course plastic and metal oboes, clarinets and bassoons.

They're never made out of wood?

 

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

I said MOST flutes. Or would you have to play a wooden flute to be in a WW 5tet?

 

[bpimentel]

The "woodwind" quintet tradition predates the saxophone, going back at least to the first decade of the 19th century.

And the term "woodwind quintet" has fallen out of favor, anyway, with "wind quintet" being the current preferred term.

As pointed out, the term "woodwind" is clearly problematic and outdated, too, but it looks like we are stuck with that one for now.

 

[tictactux]

Here's a sax quintet, with a rather classical piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlKiM0Q3Kq4

 

[jbtsax]

At the university I attended I sat in with a student woodwind quintet transposing the horn parts up a step on my alto sax for several rehearsals when the horn player was not available. The chief complaint among the other members of the group was that it didn't sound horny enough.

John

 

[Al Stevens]

I said MOST flutes. Or would you have to play a wooden flute to be in a WW 5tet?

My followup comment was to modify my first comment, which, apparently, wasn't clear enough.

Q: Why aren't saxes...
A: [Is it because] They're never made out of wood? [Emphasis added.]

So, apparently my followup comment wasn't clear either. That's all the clearing-up I can do today. Carry on.

 

[Helen]

Actually, there are a couple saxophones brands that are made of wood. There is the Saxwood and the wooden alto sold through Thaitradder.com.

Since I had no intention of hijacking this thread, I now return us to the original question of why are saxophones not considered a part of a woodwind quintet?

 

[tictactux]

Since I had no intention of hijacking this thread, I now return us to the original question of why are saxophones not considered a part of a woodwind quintet?

I'm with bpimentel - by the time the woodwind quintet was invented, the sax wasn't yet.
("Bad timing" may also be one reason why JSB hasn't composed on or for the Hammond organ)

 

[Gandalfe]

This is nice too with more soft parts and some interesting mixes of the saxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43kyFN5m5cU

 

[Al Stevens]

I think I'll go carve me a saxophone. After that I'll get some steel wool and knit me a shotgun.

 

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

Here's a sax quintet, with a rather classical piece: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlKiM0Q3Kq4

This is nice too with more soft parts and some interesting mixes of the saxes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43kyFN5m5cU

Yeah, that quintet is quite fun to listen to!

My followup comment was to modify my first comment, which, apparently, wasn't clear enough.

Q: Why aren't saxes...
A: [Is it because] They're never made out of wood? [Emphasis added.]

So, apparently my followup comment wasn't clear either. That's all the clearing-up I can do today. Carry on.

Oh sorry about that. My mistake, but as Helen said there are those dreadful sounding Saxwood "saxophones". Hey, they sound different, so maybe they would fit in a (wood)wind quintet, soundwise.

Well the explanation for having the saxophone invented 3 decades after the "woodwind quintet" works, but I still find the saxophone left out. :-(

 

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

Not related to a wind quintet, but I'ved noticed that the upper register of the bari can sound like a cello, and the upper register of the alto and tenor can sound like a violin/viola... sort of.

 

[Al Stevens]

...but as Helen said there are those dreadful sounding Saxwood "saxophones". Hey, they sound different, so maybe they would fit in a (wood)wind quintet, soundwise.

I think they would fit better in my fireplace.

 

[tictactux]

I think they would fit better in my fireplace.

Too bad that Trumpets don't incinerate that easily.

But you know what? If everyone grabbed their horn instead of their purse/briefcase/folder, and started to play Beethoven's 9th (or the Addams Family Theme) at 9AM sharp, what impression would that make?

 

[retread]

I guess it's for the same reason a community band director I know calls for the woodwinds to play a section, but he wants only flutes, clarinets, and oboes, not saxes or bassoons.