Yamaha 221ii bass clarinet

I hope this forum is beginner friendly because that's me. I've started (soprano) clarinet lessons. My goal, however is to play bass clarinet.

I need to pick up a bass clarinet, and have zeroed in on the Yamaha 221ii. However, I've seen a couple site reviews that claim it plays too sharp. Is this true? This is too much money for me to make a purchasing mistake, and it is too difficult for me as a beginner to sort out what issues are real and what issues aren't.

Please help!
 
I hope this forum is beginner friendly because that's me. I've started (soprano) clarinet lessons. My goal, however is to play bass clarinet.
Excellent choice, Madam.
I need to pick up a bass clarinet, and have zeroed in on the Yamaha 221ii. However, I've seen a couple site reviews that claim it plays too sharp. Is this true? This is too much money for me to make a purchasing mistake, and it is too difficult for me as a beginner to sort out what issues are real and what issues aren't.
Hmm. Might be that for A=440 you have to pull out the neck some 2..3 mm, as the instrument is designed for worldwide use (A=440 and A=442).
(Soprano clarinets use differently sized barrels, pro basses have tunable necks, and student basses pull out a bit. That's how it's supposed to work, I think.)
But I don't think this should discourage you from it, as it is a very nice instrument indeed.
 
I purchased one about a year ago and have had no problems with it. It does play a bit sharp sometimes but as Tictactux, and my teacher (yes you can teach an Old Dick new tricks), both point out this is easily corrected by pulling out the neck a little bit.

Good luck on the clarinet adventure!!
 
Excellent to hear that is adjustable via the neck. I wonder if the reviews I read were by people that didn't realize that. I've read mostly positive opinions on the instrument, which is why I've been leaning towards that one.

Oh and I'm a sir not madam!
 
Oh and I'm a sir not madam!
My apologies, it seems that I have been tricked into conclusions by your nickname. If I might suggest you tell us a bit more about yourself so that we know about you a bit better. :)
 
My apologies, it seems that I have been tricked into conclusions by your nickname. If I might suggest you tell us a bit more about yourself so that we know about you a bit better. :)

No worries, was just a correction. No insult taken.

Mid-30s, married, software engineer, no music background other than listening (not even a single class eons ago in school), interested in playing some jazz (someday), out of my league here... Anything else you'd like to know?
 
No worries, was just a correction. No insult taken.

Mid-30s, married, software engineer, no music background other than listening (not even a single class eons ago in school), interested in playing some jazz (someday), out of my league here... Anything else you'd like to know?

Well, this isn't about scrutinizing folks, so it's up to you how much you want to reveal...sometimes it helps to know that someone is a "late bloomer" (as is .self) or why on earth someone steered towards music instead of Ponzi Schemes or making Macramé Owls.
A good place to make a somewhat formal introduction would be here. (For the record - I'm a SW Engineer as well)
 
Or...

...the torture device known as the M4T6...

Many a finger belonging to the members of the 1138th Engineer Battalion (Combat) of the Missouri Army National Guard was pinched, fractured, or (in three cases) amputated when trying to assemble the school and versions of one of these. Lazy, out-of-shape National Guard infantrymen converted to combat engineers do not make people willing to listen to instructions.

The unit, formerly the historic 138th Infantry Regiment of World War I Meuse Argonne fame, was converted to a engineer battalion when manning levels dropped off as the six year enlistments of the draft dodgers were ending in the early 1970's. I joined in 1973 in order to get off of work at the VA during the summer, and (as an experienced, prior "real" service NCO) inherited the mechanized scout platoon of the D Company.

We had heard of other units (primarily the Air Guard) that had been converted as manning levels dropped, but we were completely surprised when we were assembled in the bleacher amphitheater at our Weldon Springs training ground, the entire attenuated battalion at once. Once there, a full bird colonel stood up (we never saw much above a captain normally) and proceeded to lecture us about the great things that were going to flow from the upcoming conversion.

In the stands was a mix of the last of the draft dodgers, about the same number of young black kids who were there in order to have some employment, and the veneer of prior service people like me. We sat and listened as Colonel Blimp (a typical, no active duty, always an officer in the Guard) went on and on about how great this was going to be. We were going to be doing good for the community, we were going to learn construction trades, and on and on. To hear him tell it, we would all be getting construction management jobs within a year or so.

Some wise-ass in the back row (it may have been me) had the temerity to put his hand up and ask if the units were going to transfer directly; i.e., D Company of the infantry battalion would become D Company of the engineer battalion - he replied that the conversion had already begun and that yes, we would be in the new D Company in the engineer battalion. I then asked, all innocent like, if combat engineer battalions still had the D Company tasked as the heavy bridge element, and he (somewhat surprised) replied that he thought it was still the case.

After our little love-fest, I sought out my good friend SFC Andre, first sergeant of D Company and told him that I would be leaving his happy family when my current hitch was up. (I was on a year-to-year system, not having any active duty commitment any longer.) After some cajoling on his part, plus the promise of a pay grade bump if I stayed on, I pushed that to a year and a half.

The "conversion" was accomplished at Fort Leonard Wood over the next two week summer camp. In effect, we went through an accelerated version of Advanced Individual Training, minus the military training and the physical training components. The elements were broken up into two weeks general construction training, a week on the Bailey bridge, and a week on the others, including the abomination that is/was the M4T6.

The general construction training was pretty pointless for me (I'm a union bricklayer and stonemason, and have worked in and around construction stuff all of my life), but the bridging stuff was at least interesting.

I had, of course, crossed many a Bailey span in RVN, where they were used to upgrade the ancient French-built highway system to bear the weight of our tanks and personnel carriers. And, I had "experienced" the use of the M4T6 as part of the training sessions covered by my AIT cycles down at Knox during my DI days.

But, it's quite a different matter to actually have to assemble the things. Prefabricated structures that pin and bolt together in a hurry to support huge amounts of weight, military bridges are well-designed structures. And, they are designed, at least for combat engineer battalions, to be assembled by hand. As might be imagined, a portable bridge capable of spanning a fifty foot river and allowing fifty-two ton tanks to cross has a lot of heavy components.

Both the Bailey (which had no military "M" designation) and the M4T6 are composed of massive metal frames and panels and baulks and ribbans and all sechlike. With the exception of the pins used to hold them together, there is not a part that calls for a one-man carry in either of them. A typical item, a bridge panel for the Bailey, was a six-man carry, with each pair using a pole inserted through the panel to shuffle along with the cumbersome burden. The flooring for the bridges was made of massive metal beams (aluminum or steel, I don't recall) that were also four or six man carries. Heavy, heavy stuff.

(Still, it was man portable, and during the training (with active duty Committee Group supervisors there to keep things going, and the threat of the stockade should troops not comply) things went smoothly enough. Once back at the unit, the slackers still refused to do any work, and there weren't enough prior service and "new guys" to make the lifts. Not a good thing...)

But, the piece de resistance, in more ways than one, was the so-called "saddle" piece of the M4T6. This was a huge aluminum "spider" that rested atop the rubber boat that supported a section of the bridge or raft. (It could be used for both purposes; very adaptable item.) The saddle pinned to the top of the rubber raft in four places, with a substantial steel pin and Cotter key assembly to hold it in place. The problem was (and is, for all I know) was with rubber boats used as the pontoon component of the bridge.

(Incidentally, the pontoon word is (for some reason) pronounced as "ponton", not "pontoon" by the staff at Leonard Wood. Why, no one knows. Similarly, the side of the roadway of the Bailey bridge is called the "riband", rather than the same term used here in the US for such items, "ribbon". I blamed the British Army for that one, and for the fact that all of the Bailey components I ever saw (in RVN, in the MOANG, and over in New Orleans, where there's a lot of Bailey in use to replace damaged highway spans) are painted grey, instead of the otherwise standard olive drab. Go figure...)

The saddle is a massive structure, made of very heavy gauge aluminum square-section tubing, perhaps 10" or 12" through. It stretches over a sprawling ten or twelve foot square, with arms and frames above the base that extend further out from the square.

The clevises that the pins fit through are mounted on top of the sides of the rubber raft. They pass through the clevis arms, and through a square section "pin" welded to the bottom of the base framework. Each pin weighs a couple of pounds, and is a precision fit through both the "pin" and the two sides of the clevis.

In order to mount the stupid thing on the raft, you pick up the saddle (well, you and about fifteen of your close friends), carry it over the raft, carefully lower it into the clevises, and insert the pins and Cotter them in place. Then, that boat is ready to be assembled into the rest of the raft or bridge. Simple as pie.

...except that the rubber boats were never fully inflated, and were thus as floppy as a half-inflated Macy's parade balloon. So, there we stood, twenty folks trying to lift the stupid saddle up and carry it over the foot and a half high boat, and then lower it (carefully - gotta protect the relatively frail rubber boat) into the clevises so that the pins could be slipped into place and locked up tight.

The job to avoid was that of pin inserter, and it was hard as hell to get anyone to do it once the first finger got nipped off. Fingers were caught in the clevises, and between the frame and the structure around the clevis location. Nasty, nasty stuff.

We suggested that the boats could be deflated, the saddles installed, and then the boats blown up again, but that was nixed as it was not the way "it was done". To be fair, it appeared that the impact of a dropped saddle might puncturing the bottom of the boat under the clevis mounts. Still, better a patched boat than a lost finger, at least in my eyes.

Once we got back from the initial summer camp, we received all of our combat engineer kit, most of it chucked into the back of five ton tactical dump trucks. Thereafter, the weekly drills consisted of throwing up a bridge, driving a ceremonial Jeep across it, and then taking it down the next day after a big barbecue lunch.

Right before I finished up the extra year I promised SFC Andre, we did get to do something that was worthwhile. Our company volunteered (to get away from monthly bridge duty) to build a huge fenced enclosure at a local nature park, which ultimately was to house breeding pairs of wolves.

Using the handy Engineer's Field Manual, a wonderful publication that I caused to have issued to all of my OSHA staff, we put up the fencing over a three month period. I was the only person in the company who had ever worked with concrete on a meaningful basis, so I supervised the mixer (using a nifty little one yard mixer on a trailer) and the placement, while the rest of the mob followed up the next week with the Cyclone fabric. We did a nice job - I even had the guys troweling off the top of the fence post pours - but when the plaque commemorating all of the "donors" to the project, conspicuous by its absence was any mention of Company D, 1138th Engineer Battalion (Combat), MOANG. Some people have no gratitude.

These days, combat engineer battalions have all sorts of on-vehicle mounted handling equipment on their huge HETT trucks for stuff like Bailey bridge panels. (It certainly beats trying to manually load one on a five ton dump truck where the lip of the dump bed is about six feet above ground level.) Even with gear like that, I'd not join up with the combat engineers on a bet.

I went to then-CSM Andre's retirement back in the late 1980's, but haven't visited the old unit since. I imagine that it's been dropped down to a signal company by now.
 
Wow this sure got off topic!

I had one more question for anyone that knows, does the 221ii come with the floor peg as standard?
 
We are a bit more loosely organized than many sites. If you don't like something, just scroll on by.
I'm interested in it.

Have you ever thought of doing a book, Terry?
 
I've had offers on several topics from specialty publishers (for example, the kind of firm that would want to put a book on Japanese armored vehicles into print certainly falls into that category), but the amount of effort to do things right is far beyond what I am willing to spend my time upon. I was trained in the Germanic form of scholarship, and that's just too meticulous of a road map for a lazy person like me to follow.

I collaborated on a series of articles in the safety and health field about thirty-four years ago, but there too it was of limited appeal (overhead crane safety, anyone). We were paid well enough, but then the Reagan limitations on authorship by government employees kicked in and that was the end of that. I've also done some work in the computer software field, some work on wargaming, and had a column on geezer hockey in a hockey magazine of limited circulation for about a year.

Writers are either of the love to write species, or of the love the topic variety. I'm of the latter group, and although computers have simplified things in the past forty years, it's still a lot of work to even get something to the "ready to edit" stage. Too much work for this old fool...
 
Hi werecow. I'm interested in hearing more about your experience. I also recently (in April) took to clarinets...in my case, after 40 years of playing other instruments...and found the cl simply natural, pretty much immediately. Typically, this has not been my experience with most chromatic instruments, where there is usually a longer "uptake." I acquired a bass in April, as well as a soprano--pretty much fell instantly in love (although bass took longer than the immedate affinty with sop as it took a couple of months to solve bass equipment problems, and of course gain some playing facility) and have setted on it for my "main" instrument

What is your experience

btw, what I like about cl is both the feel of the instrument -- that I can execute my sound concept on it -- and, in mediums that interest me greatly--jazz and blues especially.
 
Hi catty, what would you like to know specifically?

I am very new to the clarinet, and music playing too. I had tried some other instruments in the past and hated them all (guitar, bass guitar, trumpet). Eric Dolphy's version of Billie Holliday's 'God Bless the Child' is what got me interested in learning bass clarinet. Instant love. Started basic lessons, picked up a rental clarinet, and loved playing it from the very start. I have no idea why I enjoy the clarinet when I hated playing the other instruments, guess it is just 'right' for me.
 
Well, I haven't been round ere for some time...forgot by now what it was specifically I wanted to know! Although, generally, I'm interested when a new player--especially one new to playing musical instruments--decides on the b cl, and am curious how this inspiration occurs.


And your story does not disappoint in this regard. I'm not surprised that Dolphy inspired you. Dolphy's approach is somewhat challenging to many folks' aesthetic, but as I assume you're a jazz lover you're likely not too challenged by his sound. Jumping into playing with this as a model, however, I think is perhaps out of the usual. I did the same thing, frankly, when I got into clarinets last year--started copping licks from recordings...especially Mingus' whom I couldn't stop listening to almost exclusively for months...but I've been playing instruments of all types all my life and have been a devotee of contemporary jazz and improvisational music for decades. Jumping into b cl playing cold, inspired by Dolphy...that's great.

Hope you're still inspired. I got back into too many other things this year--kids, other instruments and lots of folk music playing, and a few projects as a sideman (on other instruments)--but a few days ago, after full recovery from a nasty cold, dug out my bass again...and rekindled the love.

cheers
 
I've played a 221ii for about 5 years, and it was a great instrument to start on, but I'm not so sure it would be the best for a lasting investment (the school band owns mine) because it's an Eb bass clarinet. As a beginner, it won't bother you, but as you get more advanced, it gets a little frustrating. Overall, though, it's a great instrument :)
Actually, one recommendation, if you do go for it: get a new mouthpiece. They're hellishly expensive, but the 4C that it comes with is just no fun to play on, and it'll make playing in the high second and third octave much easier, at least, that's what I've found.
 
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