Yanagisawa SC-880, SC-990 ...

[pete]

tl;dr: Probably don't exist.

I've been working on my Yanagisawa testing page and I've gotten around to the 800, 880, 900, and 990 series horns. I looked and found an odd lack of SC-880s in my 880 gallery. I then took a look at a 1980's catalog and didn't see the SC-880 listed, just the SC-800, S-6, S-800, and S-880 (the presence of the S-880 means it's a 1985 or later catalog). Heck, it even lists the extremely rare B-880b low Bb baritone. I'd assume it's a pretty complete catalog, then!

Here's what I wrote on my non-testing website:

The absolute easiest way of telling an SC-800 (the SC-800 is the first Yanagisawa curved soprano, so no 6 series to compare against) from an SC-880 is to look at the neck. The SC-880 has an underslung octave key mechanism. The 800 has the traditional over-the-top style. However, I dislike telling people to look just at this feature because necks can be replaced.

It seems that the SC-800 and SC-900 just had necks with the underslung octave key available.

Well, let's talk about the 990, then.

One fun problem is that I do not have a 1990s Yanagisawa 900/990-series catalog. I also noticed a distinct lack of SC-990s in my gallery of 990 horns. Well, what about the horns with an underslung neck, like this one? Well, let me Google, "yanagisawa sc-990." No hits. Well, let's fool around some more. Ah. An SOTW post. Ok, Gandalfe, where's your SC-990? Does it have a "990" stamp on it?

When we get to the 901/991 series, there are both SC-901s and SC-991s. The major difference: the 901 has left-hand bell keys. The 991 has right. You can get the underslung neck for the 901, too. But ... the 901's not in the 2007 catalog.

Arrrrrrggggggghhhhhh.

Anyhow, the reason to be interested in whether you have a 800 or an 880 is because the 880 (and probably 990, etc.) were made with "French brass" and their toneholes are slightly shifted to accommodate the additional brass thickness. We could also look at ribbed vs. plate construction, etc. The other bit of amusement is the underslung octave key, which you can see in that 2007 catalog. 901 isn't underslung. These differences = a more expensive horn.

 

[Gandalfe]

Yes, it has the "992" stamp on it. Here are some quick pics. By the way, I sold Suzy's SC902, so this is hers now. I continue to prefer my S992 because it's easier to store in a sax stand combo.

 

[pete]

990 != 992

I realized, the other day, that I've been working on mainly Yanagisawa stuff for about a year. Not complaining; just observing.

While I am studying for my November computer certification tests (CASP), I am still playing around with WordPress and various themes to make a single Yanagisawa website that looks nice and is a bit more consistent than my current stuff. One of the fun/bad things is that I have been going through a lot of pics and documentation and saying, "Wait. That's not right."

 

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

Here's my take on these. Unlike their other lines (SATB), Yanagisawa's curved soprano 901/902 and 991/992/9937 series ran at separate times and the latter was the new, redesigned version. That would explain the lack of a 880 and a 990 curved sop... and the lack of the 901/902 horns in the 2007 catalogue. I don't think the 901/902 ever had overslung octave mechs. The redesign included necks with sharper angles too. I would guess that 800s had overslung necks and the underslung version was released with the 900s. I would also guess that a the regular/non Mark VI-style palm keys was also introduced at this time.

By the way, have fun figuring out why there is an SC9930 (brass bow and bell, silver body) in the old design à la 901/902 and one in the new design à la 991/992/9937. No, I don't think the SC9030 exists.

 

[pete]

The 902/992 is the bronze body series of horns. AFAIK, these are 901/991 horns just made with a different material, not a redesign, like the 900 to 901. However, I've got several horns that the sellers call "902s" that are gold-plated bodies. I'll have to look into it a bit more.

All the 9030s I currently have pics of are straight sopranos. 9930s, a sopranino and Eb altos. 9932, Eb alto. 9933, Eb altos. 9937, SC, alto, tenor. The SC-9937 does have right-side bell keys, so that's new-style, not old.

A quick Google shows listings of SC-9930s with left bell keys and SC-9930s with right-side bell keys. Opinion: the SC-9030 has left bell keys and the folks that are calling them "9930s" are wrong. That makes sense: if the 9030 series is a 901 model in sterling and the SC-901 has left-side bell keys, a sterling SC-901 should be called an SC-9030. However, I haven't looked at a catalog, yet, and I haven't looked at serial numbers.

I've not looked at the palm keys at all, so I couldn't tell you much about that. However, my opinion is that went from a Mark VI-style on the 880 to a Super 80-style on the 990, overall, regardless of pitch. I say this mainly because of the bell-to-body brace and the ergonomic low C and Eb keys. I've not looked too far into the G#/C#/B/Bb table keys on the 990, but the ones on the 880 are only superficially Mark VI-style. They're more a unique-to-Yanagisawa design.

Oh. I've also gotta remember that there's the 981 soprano.

I'll say again: it would have been nice if Yanagisawa decided to stamp the model names on their horns. You know it's bad when Yani's own resellers get confused.

 

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

The 902/992 is the bronze body series of horns. AFAIK, these are 901/991 horns just made with a different material, not a redesign, like the 900 to 901. However, I've got several horns that the sellers call "902s" that are gold-plated bodies. I'll have to look into it a bit more.

Yea, I realize that. I meant that the redesign was between 901/902 and 991/992. 90x being old and 99x being new. That's odd about the 902s though. "s" should indicate that it is a 902 silver-plated bronze-bodied horn... unless you were pluralizing "902".

A quick Google shows listings of SC-9930s with left bell keys and SC-9930s with right-side bell keys. Opinion: the SC-9030 has left bell keys and the folks that are calling them "9930s" are wrong. That makes sense: if the 9030 series is a 901 model in sterling and the SC-901 has left-side bell keys, a sterling SC-901 should be called an SC-9030. However, I haven't looked at a catalog, yet, and I haven't looked at serial numbers.

I agree with you that it makes sense, but when do Yanagisawa model numbers make sense?:tongue:

Oh. I've also gotta remember that there's the 981 soprano. I'll say again: it would have been nice if Yanagisawa decided to stamp the model names on their horns. You know it's bad when Yani's own resellers get confused.

And 90 and 99. I've seen them but I'd love to know more about them if you ever find anything on them. I can link pictures of a S99 with the S99 stamp if you want to see. Oh.. and 901II too! But this would be getting off topic. Sorry.

Nice Yanagisawa pages by the way. Very interesting and cool to see some of the rarer "vintage" models such as the A-3 and T-3. Thanks for the resource.

 

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

So I decided to have some fun with Archive.org. If you go back to around 2002 or so (I went to June 1, 2002), you see three curved sopranos: SC-901, SC-902 and SC-9930. This was 2002 which would have been before the RH side bell key curved soprano design was released. I'm starting to believe that they were just inconsistent with their second digit in the model numbers. If you check out the website of today, the Japanese side shows a SN-901 nino and the English side shows a SN-981. Or are these two models?

 

[pete]

So I decided to have some fun with Archive.org. If you go back to around 2002 or so (I went to June 1, 2002), you see three curved sopranos: SC-901, SC-902 and SC-9930. This was 2002 which would have been before the RH side bell key curved soprano design was released. I'm starting to believe that they were just inconsistent with their second digit in the model numbers. If you check out the website of today, the Japanese side shows a SN-901 nino and the English side shows a SN-981. Or are these two models?

No, they both list the SN-981. English. Japanese. Maybe you're looking at the 981 soprano ...? There is/was an SN-901. I think that was discontinued. I haven't done a comparison of the SN-901 to the SN-981, so I can't tell you what the differences are.

> I'm starting to believe that they were just inconsistent with their second digit in the model numbers.
I doubt that. It's easier to believe that other researchers just don't have correct information. Occam's razor and all that.

On a related topic, you wrote me about the 99 model. Let me respond here. That will sorta back-up my above comment.

I've seen a Yani "40" model, a "50" model, an "80" model, and a "90" model. The 40 was a 4 Series instrument, 50 was a 500, the 80 was an 800, and the 90 was a 900. My opinion is that these were horns sold in some Asian markets, kinda like how Yamaha had a 25 model and a 23 model sax. Now, there are TWO places that currently advertise a "99" model, both sopranos. They're Wind Bros. and SoundFuga. I Googled hard for a bit and couldn't find any A-99 or T-99 models. I Googled a bit less hard and didn't find any A-88 or T-88 models. That strikes me as either odd, because it was pretty easy to find 40s, 50s, etc. or that the 88/99 model doesn't exist.

I've seen a lot of 40, 50, 80, and 90 altos and tenors, but no sopraninos, sopranos, or baritones. Makes me think that there might have only been 40, 50, etc. altos and tenors. I could also accept that there's a 60 model out there, though. It'd fit.

(If you're wondering, and I'm not going to search ATM, a couple of the 40, 50, etc. horns I have pics of have warranty cards that say things like "A-50" and/or A-40, etc. is stamped on the bell.)

I think the above dealers are probably just mistaken and accidentally dropped the end zero off two S-990s. Hey, I know SoundFuga mis-categorized a bunch of horns. In any event, though, I'm relatively sure, without checking in too much depth, that there were no differences between, say, the A-900 and the A-90, so if a "99" model actually exists, it'd be no different from a 990 or not significantly different. Maybe a different thumbrest.

 

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

No, they both list the SN-981. English. Japanese. Maybe you're looking at the 981 soprano ...? There is/was an SN-901. I think that was discontinued. I haven't done a comparison of the SN-901 to the SN-981, so I can't tell you what the differences are.

> I'm starting to believe that they were just inconsistent with their second digit in the model numbers.
I doubt that. It's easier to believe that other researchers just don't have correct information. Occam's razor and all that.

I mean English and Japanese versions of the main Yanagisawa site (www.yanagisawasax.co.jp). When I mentioned Archive.org, I mean this too. The www.yanagisawasaxophones.com site is a Conn-Selmer thing. Here, look. My bad for not being clear. I have no idea what the two models are like either, I'm just pointing something out.

Here is the mention of the SC-9930 on the main Yanagisawa website. Not a secondary resource, just an archive from 2002.

 

[Yamahaaltoplayer]

On a related topic, you wrote me about the 99 model. Let me respond here. That will sorta back-up my above comment.

I've seen a Yani "40" model, a "50" model, an "80" model, and a "90" model. The 40 was a 4 Series instrument, 50 was a 500, the 80 was an 800, and the 90 was a 900. My opinion is that these were horns sold in some Asian markets, kinda like how Yamaha had a 25 model and a 23 model sax. Now, there are TWO places that currently advertise a "99" model, both sopranos. They're Wind Bros. and SoundFuga. I Googled hard for a bit and couldn't find any A-99 or T-99 models. I Googled a bit less hard and didn't find any A-88 or T-88 models. That strikes me as either odd, because it was pretty easy to find 40s, 50s, etc. or that the 88/99 model doesn't exist.

I've seen a lot of 40, 50, 80, and 90 altos and tenors, but no sopraninos, sopranos, or baritones. Makes me think that there might have only been 40, 50, etc. altos and tenors. I could also accept that there's a 60 model out there, though. It'd fit.

(If you're wondering, and I'm not going to search ATM, a couple of the 40, 50, etc. horns I have pics of have warranty cards that say things like "A-50" and/or A-40, etc. is stamped on the bell.)

I think the above dealers are probably just mistaken and accidentally dropped the end zero off two S-990s. Hey, I know SoundFuga mis-categorized a bunch of horns. In any event, though, I'm relatively sure, without checking in too much depth, that there were no differences between, say, the A-900 and the A-90, so if a "99" model actually exists, it'd be no different from a 990 or not significantly different. Maybe a different thumbrest.

I have noticed that Soundfuga does mis-categorize many horns, but I do believe an S99 to exist, oddball or not. Here, can't argue with a picture of the stamp. I'd agree that it probably isn't a completely different model though. A different designation for a different market is a good guess.

 

[pete]

I have noticed that Soundfuga does mis-categorize many horns, but I do believe an S99 to exist, oddball or not. Here, can't argue with a picture of the stamp. I'd agree that it probably isn't a completely different model though. A different designation for a different market is a good guess.

I sit corrected. I didn't see that the first three times I looked at it. I cut out the pic for reference: