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A Discussion About YAGE

#1
With all due respect jbtsax,

Now if the parents are ignorant as to the value of starting their child out on a better quality instrument, that's another story.
If that is the case, and they can truly afford a higher quality clarinet, I might concider making recommendations as to what might be a suitable upgrade.
Until then... Well... I'll keep my mouth shut.
Both my mother and father do not play a musical instrument, I have no members in my family who has any musical knowledge, this is why my father suggested I joined a woodwind forum.
My music teacher (who plays Flute, Clarinet, Sax) spoke to my mum & said that later I should change my clarinet.
The UK run a system where you can claim the VAT back if you are a student. The budget for a new clarinet is £500 excluding VAT, the max and no Xmas or Birthday presents for the next few years.
I was about 8 years old when I started my first 1 to 1 Clarinet lessons and my parents did not want to spend to much money on a clarinet, just encase I did not stick with the instument and I received my Venus as a Birthday & Xmas present a few years ago.

Thank you for the link to Normans, which I have had a look and will talk with my clarinet teacher. Also thank you for your help to those of you who have been kind.

But I will not be coming on this forum anymore " if the parents are ignorant as to the value of starting their child out on a better quality instrument," My parents have always done there best with me and my mum sits with me to help me learn the translations of the words for my theory test.
Thank you to everyone else who were kind and helpful.:cry:
 

Tammi

Private woodwind instructor
#2
I apologise for any misunderstanding and poor choice of words.

I have asked that I no longer be allowed to post on The Woodwind Forum.
 

Carl H.

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
#3

Tammi

Private woodwind instructor
#4
B S


:emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp:Don't you do it!!!!!!!!:emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp::emoji_imp:







:emoji_imp:
My track record here is not good.
In my comment to jbtsax I managed to hurt some little girls' feelings to the point that she won't come back.
That was my fault.
In order to keep the young ones here, and the older ones from getting mad, it's best that I no longer put in my 2 cents.
There are enough people here that have far more experience than I to give worthwhile advice.
I have proven myself unworthy.
I will now politely and respectfully bow out.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
#5
It's again time for ...

[admin_hat=ON]

Per official forum rules, I'm going to say that the YAGEs in this thread by both Tammi and clarinetgirlandswimmer were waaay too lame and they need to be invited back for an encore performance.

a. To satisfy my right to ban everyone and everything, I do think that both Tammi and clarinetgirlandswimmer could use some time off, say a week. Cool off. Spend some time away from the forum. At least, think up better YAGEs :p.

b. clarinetgirlandswimmer, if you want to pick up and find another forum, that's your prerogative, but if you want to stay here, please note that everyone is trying to be as helpful as possible and one should be slow to take offense.

If y'all have any questions, you can e-mail me at saxpics@gmail.com.

[/admin_hat]
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
#8
And just what is a YAGE? Inquiring minds want to know...
Meaning, of course, someone posting something in the form of:

I hate you all. You're never going to see me here again. I have 2,437 years experience in the music industry (yes, in addition to everything else, I am the Highlander. There can be only one) and played with John Coltrane, Charlie Parker, Sigurd Rascher, Benny Goodman, Adolphe Sax, Adam AND Eve. I helped design the Mark VI, Super 20, Martin Magna, Heckelphone, R13, Fox bassoon, and the Powell flutes!

You won't have me to kick around anymore! Delete my account!
I generally grade YAGEs based on the list of how many people you played with and any music-industry credentials you list in your YAGE. Extra points for saying how much you helped everyone on the forum and/or how the forum's nothing without you.

===============

While I'm obviously having way too much fun with this, it's a serious problem: at SOTW, for instance, I've had to ban people that thought they had the "cult-of-personality" thing goin' and that they were more important than the forum itself. Umm. No. No, you aren't. Very, very few people have both the musical credentials, personality, character, postcount and information to be that essential. If you can't take an e-mail/PM/post from an Admin saying that you need to cool it a bit, a YAGE isn't the best idea.

The only time a "goodbye" is really needed and desired is if there's a staff member leaving for some reason. There's a logical reason for this: you don't want to e-mail someone to do admin tasks if he's no longer an admin and a former CE probably doesn't want to be bothered with Private Messages and e-mails, either.

(Bonus points for getting the Nixon reference, BTB.)
 

Carl H.

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
#9
Could you clarify for me, did Tammi voluntarily have herself Martysaxed here?

When is her time in the hole over?
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
#10
Could you clarify for me, did Tammi voluntarily have herself Martysaxed here?

When is her time in the hole over?
I thought I was rather specific in my earlier post: I gave her and clarinetgirlandswimmer a week to cool down. It's been more than a week, so the ban has been lifted.

In my opinion, Tammi made a mistake and I don't think mistakes are worthy of being perma-banned. And I thought the YAGE was weak.

For CG&S (name's too long), I think that she needs to understand that we have a rule of trying to take things that are posted in the best possible way and/or take it up with the admins if there's a problem. And her YAGE was weak, too.

FWIW, I have not received any PMs or e-mails from either party.

I was not an admin on SOTW by the time martysax showed up there, so I don't know the content of the posts that got him temp banned more than once. I have heard some things, but because I have "half the story", I don't mind if marty visits, but he's gotta play by the same rules as everyone else: play nice, respect the CEs and Admins.
 

jbtsax

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
#12
With all due respect to the forum moderator Clarinetswimmergirl's response TO Tammi was polite and mature beyond her years. I don't feel that a "time out" for her was appropriate, even with the tongue in cheek humor about coming up with a better YAGE which I am certain she did not know what it meant.

She had every right to be offended by the questioning of the competence of her teacher and the support of her parents. I would have been offended in the same situation.


John
 
Last edited:

Dave Dolson

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
#13
John: I disagree, to a point. I for one questioned HER description of the situation, not so much the competence of others (although until their role in all of this was adequately explained, I guess many of us were leery). Given the history of such queries both here and on that other sax-site, the young girl's initial description was lacking in sufficient detail for any of us to offer reasonable and good advice.

That is not a fatal flaw given her young age and inexperience - and I think it was reasonable to pursue further explanations from her before coming to grips with her question. I mean, how many times in the past have we discovered through more questions, that a poster's advice to buy a new instrument came from a band director who had no real knowledge of woodwinds?

So without knowing WHO was giving the advice, should we have just assumed that everyone around her was competent and gone forward with advice to spend $1K or more, when in fact, maybe merely improving her current instrument would have been perfectly fine?

Maybe some posts were over the line, but a broad accusation is unfair. I don't think the young lady should be sat down, either. Of course, she was the one who walked off in a huff. DAVE
 

Gandalfe

Admin and all around good guy.
Staff member
Administrator
#14
<one man's opinion>I viewed John's post with a sigh, "Here we go again." It can be hard on the Internet to tell what a person really means and automatically *all* posts can come across as harsh if care isn't taken to soften the blow. Words without the queues of inflection, facial expression, and voice tone can be hard to parse correctly.

Speaking of the mod/admin staff, moderating is not an easy task. There is *always* someone who will be offended, even the in best of cases. If one of our peeps is thin skinned, leaving the group is probably a good idea. But leaving for a week or so can give one time to cool down and evaluate the value of a forum in a better light.

Forums aren't for everyone. But for those who stay around, participate, and contribute, it can be both a nice diversion as well as a resource. </end opinion>

This is a good discussion but we probably will need to place it in a better place by splitting it from the original.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
#15
With all due respect to the forum moderator Clarinetswimmergirl's response Tammi was polite and mature beyond her years.
Mmm. I think you dropped a word or two. Tammi's in her 40's, IIRC. CG&S is the 12-year-old.

I don't feel that a "time out" for her was appropriate, even with the tongue in cheek humor about coming up with a better YAGE
Per forum rules, you YAGE, you get banned. Both did that. I just didn't feel that their YAGEs deserved permanent banning. In other words, I gave them both a second chance. If they wanna take it, so much the better. If not, no skin off my teeth.

This is a good discussion but we probably will need to place it in a better place by splitting it from the original.

Which it shall be. When I get a chance :).
 

jbtsax

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
#16
John: I disagree, to a point. I for one questioned HER description of the situation, not so much the competence of others (although until their role in all of this was adequately explained, I guess many of us were leery). Given the history of such queries both here and on that other sax-site, the young girl's initial description was lacking in sufficient detail for any of us to offer reasonable and good advice.

That is not a fatal flaw given her young age and inexperience - and I think it was reasonable to pursue further explanations from her before coming to grips with her question. I mean, how many times in the past have we discovered through more questions, that a poster's advice to buy a new instrument came from a band director who had no real knowledge of woodwinds?

So without knowing WHO was giving the advice, should we have just assumed that everyone around her was competent and gone forward with advice to spend $1K or more, when in fact, maybe merely improving her current instrument would have been perfectly fine?

Maybe some posts were over the line, but a broad accusation is unfair. I don't think the young lady should be sat down, either. Of course, she was the one who walked off in a huff. DAVE
Here is the way I am looking at it from the beginning of the thread. The young lady wrote this:

Hi Everyone,

I was wondering if you could help me, I am looking to buy a new B flat clarinet. I am going to be taking my grade 4 in Easter so I need a good quality clarinet.

At the moment I have a Venus CL511W clarinet. Please see pictures.

Could anyone reccommend me a clarinet? If so, please could you tell me the model, price etc....

Thanks.
From clarinetgirlandswimmer
xxxxx
That is very clear and straight forward. She asked, "Can anyone recommend a good clarinet naming the model and price?" She even gave her level of experience and what clarinet she is currently playing on. Then the third degree began. At that point the "probative questions" were unnecessary and uncalled for. A serious student wants to move up to a better clarinet, period. Her teacher's instrument or competence or her parent's interest and commitment are totally irrelevant to the original question. That is the way I view the unfortunate exchange. Let's help young people who come to the forum not discourage them and turn them away.

John
 

jbtsax

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
#17
Mmm. I think you dropped a word or two. Tammi's in her 40's, IIRC. CG&S is the 12-year-old.
Corrected
Per forum rules, you YAGE, you get banned.
This is a bit confusing Pete. There is nothing mentioned about YAGE in the posted forum rules. It is however mentioned in the banning protocol which starts out by stating that "a person gets banned for a bannable offense" linking to WF's Plain and Simple Rules which again doesn't mention YAGE.

This policy sounds kind of like the boss telling the employee "If you quit, your'e fired".

John
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
#18

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
#20
Corrected

This is a bit confusing Pete. There is nothing mentioned about YAGE in the posted forum rules. It is however mentioned in the banning protocol which starts out by stating that "a person gets banned for a bannable offense" linking to WF's Plain and Simple Rules which again doesn't mention YAGE.

This policy sounds kind of like the boss telling the employee "If you quit, your'e fired".

John
a. It's in a Forum entitled "Forum Rules". You're splitting hairs, but I'll make it clearer.
b. CG&S specifically wrote "But I will not be coming on this forum anymore" and Tammi wrote "I have asked that I no longer be allowed to post on The Woodwind Forum." Those are YAGEs, albeit poor ones.

Further, it's not, "If you quit, you're fired" it's more, "I'm not going to let you post a grand missive of all the wrongs done to you and why you're no longer posting here. Or come back and start defacing my forum." The ONLY reason that I allowed CG&S and Tammi's posts to stay up is because I think that Tammi had a small case of foot-in-mouth disease and that CG&S blew it out of proportion -- she's 12, after all. That happens.

FWIW, while I do think some of the interrogation of CG&S was a bit harsh, I do think the question of, "Are you buying this yourself or are your parents/relatives/others helping?" should be asked. However, as I've mentioned, I bought -- myself -- two baritone saxophones before I was 18, so I could understand a "kid" being offended that he's being questioned about what he's buying with his own cash that he earned.
 
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