Advice needed on a Selmer Series 10

[Tammi]

Not odd at all when you're female. It's a reality.

Now if someone could tell me where to find the problem with MY stuffy B, I'd be more than happy to to a little experimentation in order to remedy the situation. The general concensis is that I'm wrong about the vent.
Just not the one where you stick a bit of needle spring into the cork of the register key. I've tried it and it's bunk.

 

[tictactux]

Not odd at all when you're female. It's a reality.

You say that and I have to believe you. I live in a different world, and it won't do much good to apologise on behalf of those rednecks, I guess. Besides, why should I, stoopid men, yech.

Now if someone could tell me where to find the problem with MY stuffy B, I'd be more than happy to to a little experimentation in order to remedy the situation. The general concensus is that I'm wrong about the vent.

If the B is stuffy, I think the instrument is wrong about the vent, not you...

I had a similar case in the past and was able to at least alleviate the problem a bit. Dunno if there is a definite cure, maybe it is a design flaw and there's not much we (unequipped with lathes and grinders and sledgehammers) can do...
First I widened the register pipe's innards (that point towards the register key) with a pointy grinder - the pip now just looks like a tiny trumpet bell with a lot of wood around. Plus I shaped the register cork into a lens-shaped spheroid (or whatever the term). The sound of air is now far more faint and at least the airy component is gone.
The rest is a juggling with mouthpieces and rees, and maybe nothing helps, except exchanging the register key, displacing it, whatever.

 

[clarnibass]

Not odd at all when you're female. It's a reality.

I hope you didn't misinterpret my post to suggest anything like that. I promise you it didn't. Sorry if you did.

Now if someone could tell me where to find the problem with MY stuffy B, I'd be more than happy to to a little experimentation in order to remedy the situation. The general concensis is that I'm wrong about the vent.

Who exactly decided that "general concensis"? People who have tried the Signature model? Hmm..... maybe it's something specific with your Signature. Unless someone tried your specific clarinet they can't really say.

Do you know what year your Signature was made in? Have you tried other Signatures? Anything made approx at the same time? Any from a different time? How was the problem on those? Did you try any other Selmers from about same time?

I want to know so I can compare with the current Signature, and if it doesn't have a problem, maybe I can get some information from the Selmer representatives if they were aware of a problem and if the register vent was changed.

How comfortable are you with removing and re-installing the register tube? If you can do this, maybe you can get a replacement tube, and do some experiements with it.

BTW do the Bb and/or the B sound any better/different if you completely remove the regsiter key?

I'm sure you know the register tube is a compromise no matter what it is like. One compromise that can happen sometimes is better response of upper clarion, for notes like A and B for example (also other nots) in exchange for a slightly worse throat Bb, and possibly tone of lower clarion, especially B. Sometimes the altisimo will also be a bit better when this is the compromise. Do you notice the upper clarion on your Signature is responding better (when starting the notes) than your instruments without this problem?

Of course some instruments have different overall compromises and sometimes these advantages are minimized by other methods.

Nitai

 

[Tammi]

I'm aware of the compromises involved with the register tube. All of that was discussed in another thread I started here about the problematic stuffy throat Bb.
Removing the register key gives the same response as with it installed. Stuffy and muffled at ppp through fff. No change.

The Signature was purchased in '01 or '02. I can call around to a few shops to see if they have a Signature in stock for me to try and compare to mine. Most keep Selmer student horns in stock, and special order the rest. When I got mine it was the only one that I knew of at the time. It hadn't been out that long.

As for ordering a replacement tube....If they are still using the same one that would be throwing good money after bad. If it has been modified then I would be very comfortable replacing it. It's not difficult. If there is no 'cure' I can live with it. I know the alternates and use them when possible.

 

[clarnibass]

I think I wasn't clear enough.

I meant getting a replacement tube, even if it is the same, so you can try all sorts of modifications, and don't ruin your tube and then have no replacement. I think if you want to experiment it's better to have a replacement tube just in case some experiment fails, and is not easy to fix (actually I did drill my bass clarinet register vent before I had a replacement... but I don't necessarily recommend others do this). That doesn't seem like throwing money away to me if you are really intersted in experimenting.

I'm not suggesting a radical change like moving the register hole to a different place. Smaller changes like enlarging, making smaller, bevelling, shortening, etc. are not very difficult if you want to experiment.

On my soprano clarinet the throat Bb is pretty much as good as the trill Bb. I'm almost sure it is (at least partly) because of the register hole is slightly bigger. I've tried a smaller tube, and when it was small enough to feel a slight improvement in response of upper clarion and altisimo the lower clarion (especially B) and throat Bb were terrible. The improvement of the upper clarion and altisimo was insignificant in comaprison, and I don't consider their current response a problem at all.

So a slightly larger register hole might (or not, you have to check to really know) be a better overall compromise. Even a 0.1mm difference can sometimes be significant.

 

[martinm]

I recently had all new pads put on my Selmer Series 10 G to bring it back up to good playing condition. I also upgraded from a student mouthpiece to a Van Doren 5RV. For the most part, it sounds great. However, the middle range B note (please forgive my lack of correct terminology) is hard to play and sounds muted and a little flat.

I had the man who rebuilt it check again for leaks - he found none. I've tried several reeds which made no difference.

I'm quite discouraged and ready to put the clarinet back in its case for a while instead of playing it. Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to fix this problem?

I very often open the throat G# key when I sustain the middle B. Makes the note crystal clear, prevents cracking the note and improves the pitch. Try it,
you'll like it.
martinm

 

[SOTSDO]

One thing that I forgot to add in my earlier postings:

I generally find my Series 10 horn to be stuffier than any of my Series 9 instruments. Using the same mouthpiece and reed combination on each of the horns, I find that all of the 9s are smooth and consistent throughout, while the 10 has a number of stuffy notes, and some real inconsistency over the break.

i've read that the Series 10 models were all patterned on the R-13, as far as the bore was concerned, but I have never noticed those kinds of problems with the Buffets that I have played over the years.

Mind you, the inconsistencies might mostly be only apparent to the player, not to the listener. If I had to play the Series 10 horn, I could make it work. But, it's nowhere as near as "sweet" as the Series 9 instruments.

And, being used to Series 9 horns for so many years, change is not always easily accomplished. The small bore Series 9 horns certainly play different from any number of other clarinet designs, and I've probably been "grooved" on them for so long that anything else feels alien. (Certainly, the Albert horns and the German Oehler horn are a big change.)

Oddly enough, the high end Selmer metal clarinet that I have sitting in the rebuild closet feels about the same as the Series 9 instrument, with any "stuffiness" there attributed to old pads that have to be replaced. Don't know if the bore diameters and tapers are the same, though.

 

[cruiserchick]

I very often open the throat G# key when I sustain the middle B. Makes the note crystal clear, prevents cracking the note and improves the pitch. Try it,
you'll like it.
martinm

Thanks for your suggestion. I tried it, and definately hear a difference, but it is still sounds a little stuffy (as described in Terry's post just above this one).

Do you find it difficult to "retrain" yourself to play the G# key along with the middle B fingering? It seems like it will take some getting used to.

Loretta

 

[cruiserchick]

One thing that I forgot to add in my earlier postings:

I generally find my Series 10 horn to be stuffier than any of my Series 9 instruments. Using the same mouthpiece and reed combination on each of the horns, I find that all of the 9s are smooth and consistent throughout, while the 10 has a number of stuffy notes, and some real inconsistency over the break.

Thanks for your great input. The adjective "stuffy" is a great way to describe the way the middle B sounds. I'm still planning on having another musician try the clarinet out, and am going to try out a couple different mouthpieces (perhaps the Selmer would help).

Common sense would tell me to use a mouthpiece that is the same brand as the rest of the clarinet. One tech suggested I go with the Van Doren 5RV, so that's why I bought it.

 

[Dave Dolson]

Cruiserchick: I don't think "common sense" (matching brand-name mouthpieces to the same-brand instrument) is common practice. All of my new instruments came with matching-brand mouthpieces and all of those mouthpieces are in my growing box of rejected mouthpieces. Feel free to select the best mouthpiece for you without regard to the mouthpiece's brand. DAVE