Advising novice players

Groovekiller

Groovekiller

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
This woodwind forum is becoming the most interesting forum for me. Most of the posts come from people with enough experience to ask questions that can be intelligently answered by other members.

The downside of wonderful forums like SOTW (Sax on the Web) is the questions from beginners taking the form:

"I have a $6,000 saxophone and a $750 mouthpiece. I have been playing six weeks. What reed should I buy to sound like Stanley Turrentine for my middle school audition tomorrow? Don't worry. I have more money than God."

Please understand, I think forums exist to help players at all levels of experience. However, it is hard to advise a player that you've never heard. And questions such as, "What reed should I use? What mouthpiece? etc., tend to jam up the forum.

It's inevitable. Such questions will eventually invade this forum. Rather than ignore them, what suggestions do you have to intelligently help these beginners, and how do you answer a question that is too simplistic or shows that the player needs to find his/her own way through practice. I don't like to insult young, enthusiastic players.
 
Groovekiller said:
It's inevitable. Such questions will eventually invade this forum. Rather than ignore them, what suggestions do you have to intelligently help these beginners, and how do you answer a question that is too simplistic or shows that the player needs to find his/her own way through practice. I don't like to insult young, enthusiastic players.
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An appropriate quote for such an occasion would be
While money may buy you a fine dog, only love can make it wag its tail.
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The other - beaten to death - argument is that
Your hardware is 20% responsible for the sound. The other 80% is the player, and only if the player has reached a certain level, those 20% really pay off.
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Or
Don't try to imitate someone, rather let that artist inspire you, and always think of the counless hours that this player has spent behind the beak before arriving where he/she today is.
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Groovekiller said:
"Don't worry. I have more money than God."
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It seems like the problem I'm running across more often than this is, "I have a tiny bit of money and I'm anxious to spend it immediately." I think many of these people would be best advised to save up a little more and buy a solid student instrument, rather than asking for validation of the decision they've already made to buy something worthless on eBay, etc.

I also think it's worth pointing out to novices (though I expect it generally goes unheeded) that the best money you can spend on your music habit is to get some private lessons from a good teacher.

Something else that worries me is the vocal minority that comes out of the woodwork to respond to novice questions. I think there are plenty of experienced, levelheaded people on these boards who can give good, sound advice. Usually I see between zero and one responses from those people, and then a dozen well-meaning but misguided responses with advice like "I read about such-and-such mouthpiece on the Internet. You should buy that." Of course the point of boards like this is that everyone can chime in with their opinions, but I think it would be helpful to novices if knowledgeable people responded more often and expressed what probably really is the majority opinion.

There are also just a few experienced players who like to push their individual quirky ideas. Again, I think the beauty of the boards is that all opinions are welcome, but I think it would be responsible to add a disclaimer if you're advising a novice to do something outside of the mainstream pedagogical tradition.

Bret
 
I'm of a couple different minds regarding both this forum and the subject at hand, novice players.

Let's talk about the second thing first.

While I don't mind seeing the same question asked 500 times, I feel it's a disservice to people to see 500 different threads for that question -- or slight variations on that question. I would much rather have one thread that has that answer. That doesn't mean that I'd use my Admin powers to smite someone who asks the same question, it means I'd use 'em to combine the threads.

What I dislike are posts along the lines of, "You should use the search engine, you idiot." THOSE are posts I'd delete and then have a conversation with the poster. Hey, why not tell the newbie, "Your question is answered in $thread. Please post there. I'm going to drop the Admins/Mods a note to combine this thread and that one." Hey, build that community -- and chances are good that you'll be thanked for it.

I also believe that one of the best things the more experienced folks amongst us can do is write out a "FAQ"-type thing on things we have a lot of experience with. Share the wealth of knowledge. That's why I spent the time to write out a bunch of FAQs:

* Be Like Pete (why listing all your equipment really isn't helpful and how just a Selmayanigahama horn isn't going to help you sound like Turrentine)
* Global FAQ: Horn Value (how you can determine how much a horn is worth and why just buying a "name" is a bad idea -- and the perils of eBay)
* Help Me Help You (the basic info I need to help you determine who made your horn)
* Yamaha: My Review and Others (why you should just go and buy a Yamaha)
* Saxophone Bargains (what vintage horns are out there that are good and inexpensive and why you might want 'em)

-> If you're interested in any of these, just search for the titles I mention.

Further, I have re-imagined the concept of my old website, saxpics.com (which I sold last year) and I'm trying to come up with a Wiki that's heavier on the informative side, while still having good picture content. More on that in the future.

As to the other point, one of the ideas behind this forum is "peer review" (to an extent): we want to make the discussions more directed. That's why we have area "Content Experts" that have more than a clue in their specific fields. That's also why we had fun with the Reputation System for awhile and why the Admin team puts people in the "Distinguished Members" group (i.e. folks that have the orange usernames): these people aren't on the WF "staff", but are really knowledgeable about woodwinds, in general, and we know 'em. A long way of saying, "We know these people know their stuff. If they give you some advice, it's probably a good idea to heed it."

Now, I also do like the advanced topics, such as in-depth discussion regarding certian horns or instrument/mouthpiece construction. I also don't *mind* pedagogical (oooh. I spelled it right on the first chance) discussions -- but I haven't taught in a long time and I'm semi-permanently retired as a player and semi-retired as a singer. That's not to say that I couldn't contribute to those discussions, just that they're not something I'm searching for. However, I'm more than happy to provide a place for those discussions.

I liked a bit of what SOTW offered. Hey, Ed, Gandalfe and I were admins there for a long while and a lot of the folks that are here are current or former SOTW members. IMO, SOTW is more of a "flat file" database: anyone posts anything and there's direction only if a few really knowledgeable folks pick up the thread. We're a tad more "structured" and the WF "staff" WANTS to help you get the right answer -- hey, we probably have hit every thread on this forum at least once. We also really do want to foster the idea of true "community" and have a similar goal: helping people with woodwind issues.

Finally, I have been trying to step out of my "comfort zone" a bit on this forum: I'm a saxophone researcher and I know I've got a good "knowledgebase" of sax stuff. I happen to have a good deal of general knowledge about the clarinet, as that's the instrument I started on. I also have some knowledge of some very esoteric instruments, like the Sarrusophone, Heckelphone and others. However, I'm not as comfortable talking about 'em. This forum allows me to learn some stuff about these and then share if someone has a question. And that's kewl.

Yes, I put a lot of thought into coming here after Ed asked me to join the "staff" :).
 
I still use the old standard "The higher up on the instrument-player chain, the greater the difference" line. The horn is important, but not as important as the mouthpiece, the mouthpiece not as important as the reed, and the whole shebang not nearly as important as the lip, tongue and diaphragm of the player.

Seeking an easy answer to a difficult question is a standard method for most. You have to gently but firmly tell them that they've got it all ass-backwards, and then hope for the best.
 
SOTSDO said:
I still use the old standard "The higher up on the instrument-player chain, the greater the difference" line. The horn is important, but not as important as the mouthpiece, the mouthpiece not as important as the reed, and the whole shebang not nearly as important as the lip, tongue and diaphragm of the player.
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Great advice. You may see me echoing that in the future.
 
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