dilemma? used gold vs. new brass?
- Thread starter rleitch
- Start date
Is the gold plated job showing signs of hard use or is it last years model, but unplayed?
I'd go for whichever played better for me. If they played the same I'd go for the plated one as I prefer my instruments to be protected from the elements as well as is possible.
I'd go for whichever played better for me. If they played the same I'd go for the plated one as I prefer my instruments to be protected from the elements as well as is possible.
i like gold plated horns better than unlacquered. They just plain look better.
just keep in mind that the "gold" is a rather flimsy low cost alloy of gold. otherwise, at the price of PB horns i'd be buying the horns just to melt the gold off of.
just keep in mind that the "gold" is a rather flimsy low cost alloy of gold. otherwise, at the price of PB horns i'd be buying the horns just to melt the gold off of.
In my opinion, if you're talking about the same price, the same condition and the same paying characteristics, go with the gold plate: it's worth more. It'll last longer.
I'd also look a little closer at the used prices: gold plate currently almost doubles the cost of a new horn. That can mean (not "does mean") that you could get the older gold-plated horn, sell it, buy a new unlacquered one that you'd like and have some spending cash -- which you could use to treat teh WF staff to pizza and wings.
FWIW, look really, really closely at the postings regarding Barone's horns and make sure you're comparing two horns from the same factory with the same tooling.
I'd also look a little closer at the used prices: gold plate currently almost doubles the cost of a new horn. That can mean (not "does mean") that you could get the older gold-plated horn, sell it, buy a new unlacquered one that you'd like and have some spending cash -- which you could use to treat teh WF staff to pizza and wings.
FWIW, look really, really closely at the postings regarding Barone's horns and make sure you're comparing two horns from the same factory with the same tooling.
Thanks for all the replies folks.
What a ridiculous sickness GAS is: I just sold a tenor because I wasn't playing it, and here I am going after another one!
I love my Martin tenor, but I'm getting a bit tired of working on intonation all the time. The ergos are really wearing me out too.
I had my eyes on a SDA, which turned out to be (for me) almost totally unplayable! I don't know how folks even hold onto that thing. I'm sort of thinking this PM clone might be just the thing (and don't even ask me "the thing for what?", because I don't know).
Rory
What a ridiculous sickness GAS is: I just sold a tenor because I wasn't playing it, and here I am going after another one!
I love my Martin tenor, but I'm getting a bit tired of working on intonation all the time. The ergos are really wearing me out too.
I had my eyes on a SDA, which turned out to be (for me) almost totally unplayable! I don't know how folks even hold onto that thing. I'm sort of thinking this PM clone might be just the thing (and don't even ask me "the thing for what?", because I don't know).
Rory
I saw the pics of the barone tenor and sop. The tenor looked the same as another brand it was touted against. The sop looked more like a CB (or Antigua - i forgot which). I looked closely at the location of toneholes, keywork down to how pointed and long/height of the arms on the padcups, location/shape/desing of posts, etc. But a nice horn none-the-less.
when it comes to clones you have to pay real good attention to the minute details to see how accurate things are. AND then, the first manufacturer may have changed things or have different designs ... you never really know unless you are really on top of things and can check them against the makes other models face-to-face
when it comes to clones you have to pay real good attention to the minute details to see how accurate things are. AND then, the first manufacturer may have changed things or have different designs ... you never really know unless you are really on top of things and can check them against the makes other models face-to-face
Rory, what model Martin do you have?
The reason I ask is that I have an old one: a Handcraft. When I got the horn it was in many, many pieces and had been sitting like that in its case for about 20+ years. Layne Francis at the Horn Shop in Dartmouth restored, and I do mean restored, it for me from the ground up.
The regulation he did on that horn is amazing. It plays in tune like no other tenor I have ever played. It is absolutely effortless. Seriously. That's why I use it as my backup horn, despite its quirky ergonomics. I might not have played the horn in a year, but if I need it because my Mark VI is in trouble (like just happened to me at a show last month), the Martin is a breeze to play with no embouchure calisthenics required.
I have no experience with Martins other than mine, so don't know if this is typical, but it is an amazing horn.
Since Layne did the work on my Handcraft in 2000, I have only had it in the shop once with him, in around 2001, for the most minor adjustments, and for adding a front F key from a YTS 23. The Martin moved across the country (keys secured down like the rest of my horns) and still that sucker still plays like it just came from the shop. It subtones to low Bb beautifully.
So all this pontification (sorry 'bout that ;-)) to ask: Could some of your intonation issues be caused by some regulation issues?
Hey Steve!
Yeah, SDA! Crazy but I just couldn't play it. I like to hold the horn straight out in front and sort of high--like my hero Charlie Rouse!--and this sax seems designed to hold in just the opposite way. It's almost like it was designed only to be played sitting down?
I usually can get used to a new sax in a few minutes, but after wrestling with this one for about 20 minutes I was just exhausted. And, I couldn't coax a decent tone out of it.
I was pretty surprised actually--from what I had read I was expecting to be smitten.
Hey Helen. Thanks for the tip: Layne's great, but he's pretty much retired these days--and no longer in Halifax. Most of his business has been taken over by Rob MacIntosh.
My Martin is a Dick Stabile model (basically Committee II with Standard nickle keys). I had it set up by Matt Stohrer in NY (Abadcliche on SotW). He's the real deal, so I'm assuming it's properly regulated.
Basically the problem is that the top half of the stack--G# to B--is sharp compared to the same stretch on the bottom. If I'm careless about mouthpiece placement, this can be as much as a half tone difference. I think this is a combination of bad habits I learned while abusing an alto sax for several years and an intonation quirk that is built into the horn. I'd be happy to hear from everybody on this one, though
I can make it work--and I may even be benefitting from the effort--but sometimes I yearn for modern improvements. I played a 991 the other day--oh my!
Sadly, in my income bracket, an unlacquered Barone might be as close to a MarkVI or a 991 as I ever get.
Rory
Yeah, SDA! Crazy but I just couldn't play it. I like to hold the horn straight out in front and sort of high--like my hero Charlie Rouse!--and this sax seems designed to hold in just the opposite way. It's almost like it was designed only to be played sitting down?
I usually can get used to a new sax in a few minutes, but after wrestling with this one for about 20 minutes I was just exhausted. And, I couldn't coax a decent tone out of it.
I was pretty surprised actually--from what I had read I was expecting to be smitten.
Hey Helen. Thanks for the tip: Layne's great, but he's pretty much retired these days--and no longer in Halifax. Most of his business has been taken over by Rob MacIntosh.
My Martin is a Dick Stabile model (basically Committee II with Standard nickle keys). I had it set up by Matt Stohrer in NY (Abadcliche on SotW). He's the real deal, so I'm assuming it's properly regulated.
Basically the problem is that the top half of the stack--G# to B--is sharp compared to the same stretch on the bottom. If I'm careless about mouthpiece placement, this can be as much as a half tone difference. I think this is a combination of bad habits I learned while abusing an alto sax for several years and an intonation quirk that is built into the horn. I'd be happy to hear from everybody on this one, though
I can make it work--and I may even be benefitting from the effort--but sometimes I yearn for modern improvements. I played a 991 the other day--oh my!
Sadly, in my income bracket, an unlacquered Barone might be as close to a MarkVI or a 991 as I ever get.
Rory
Larger hands or a different kind of arms?
I liked my Dynaction alto. A lot. I don't remember havening to stretch much.
The Dick Stablie horn was supposed to be one of Martin's best intonation horns -- that and the Committee II. The Committee (the one everyone calls "The Martin") doesn't have that great intonation, in my opinion, but has a great tone.
The Dick Stablie horn was supposed to be one of Martin's best intonation horns -- that and the Committee II. The Committee (the one everyone calls "The Martin") doesn't have that great intonation, in my opinion, but has a great tone.
Saved...for now
Praise me folks,
I have beaten the devil GAS down...for now. No Barone (or other modern horn) for now; all Martin all the time, and my Paypal account remains somewhat painfully flushed.
I'm going to have a new neck cork put on, and finally get a cork left thumbrest made, and I think I'll take Helen's advice and see if I can't hunt down old Layne. I'll at least book some extra time with my guy to have the regulation...regulated?
I feel very proud.
Rory
ps for some Martin trivia:
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=85839
Praise me folks,
I have beaten the devil GAS down...for now. No Barone (or other modern horn) for now; all Martin all the time, and my Paypal account remains somewhat painfully flushed.
I'm going to have a new neck cork put on, and finally get a cork left thumbrest made, and I think I'll take Helen's advice and see if I can't hunt down old Layne. I'll at least book some extra time with my guy to have the regulation...regulated?
I feel very proud.
Rory
ps for some Martin trivia:
http://forum.saxontheweb.net/showthread.php?t=85839