Meridian Winds Ergonomic Heavy Mass Saxophone Neck Screw Breakthrough in acoustic science or simply "bling". What are your thoughts?
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Ergonomic Heavy Mass Saxophone Neck Screw
- Thread starter jbtsax
- Start date
I'm quite sure they both work on the same principal.I wonder how it works with Cannonball saxes' resonance stone, or if one will cancel the other out.
No, but it does in cuckoobolo wood...
I wonder how it works with Cannonball saxes' resonance stone, or if one will cancel the other out.
I agree. I also think that Cannonball is probably kicking themselves for not having thought of this.
If you accept as fact that adding more mass to either or both the neck and mouthpiece will change your tone, the Cannonball stones should do ... something. If you accept as fact that adding something at the "sonic nodes/anti-nodes" on a saxophone will alter the tone, then I think you have to say this thing would make a difference.
It's arguable whether this is a better thumbscrew. I'm not sure how it's more ergonomic than the one that comes with the horn. I also think they're kinda ugly. At least Cocobolo barrels and bells look pretty darn cool.
Prediction: in the near future, there will be weights that you can add to your horn's key cups.
Glib answer: They already have those. They are called "fingers" of players who use "gorilla grip".
Serious answer: Cannonball's stone key touches already do that to a degree. Some players feel that the added mass and weight of the metal backing of the original Buescher snap-on pads were an added benefit. I have read that Gayle Fredenburg the Buescher "specialist" puts those metal backs in the keycups even though she installs modern pads in order to keep the same "weighted" feel of the keys.
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Ah! But this wouldn't be for "feel" so much as, *ahem*, "The extra weight on the keycups dampen the higher frequencies, giving you a much darker, edgier sound." The new reso + mass system. Someone take this idea now!
I think it would be easier to make the argument that putting a weight on a key cup would change the feel of the horn. How much would depend on the springs and how much weight. The amount of force it takes to press down a key is something that's measurable, at least, and not subjective. Well, other than the fact that it's subjective if you like the extra weight or not.
Personally, I've found it very difficult to feel much keywork difference, as far as depressing the keys, themselves, on any horn with the Selmer-style "balanced" layout. Other style layouts, on the other hand, I can tell a big difference. A great example would be the flute-like lightness of the keys on my old Buffet Dynaction alto (which, I suppose, is sorta "balanced," but a different method than what Selmer used). Which also had massive screw-in resos. For whatever that's worth. I can also feel a difference between the "sculpted pearl" keys on pro Yamahas as opposed to non-pro. Not enough to make me want to pay almost double between an intermediate Yamaha and a pro one, but I can tell there's a difference.
I think it would be easier to make the argument that putting a weight on a key cup would change the feel of the horn. How much would depend on the springs and how much weight. The amount of force it takes to press down a key is something that's measurable, at least, and not subjective. Well, other than the fact that it's subjective if you like the extra weight or not.
Personally, I've found it very difficult to feel much keywork difference, as far as depressing the keys, themselves, on any horn with the Selmer-style "balanced" layout. Other style layouts, on the other hand, I can tell a big difference. A great example would be the flute-like lightness of the keys on my old Buffet Dynaction alto (which, I suppose, is sorta "balanced," but a different method than what Selmer used). Which also had massive screw-in resos. For whatever that's worth
. I can also feel a difference between the "sculpted pearl" keys on pro Yamahas as opposed to non-pro. Not enough to make me want to pay almost double between an intermediate Yamaha and a pro one, but I can tell there's a difference.
Some interesting comments, Pete. In my repair work I find that the spring force required to lift and reopen the key quickly and to its full position is also very important. Bell keys are an interesting challenge in this regard. On some saxes I lighten the springs so that when the sax is lying on its side they cannot open the key, but they do when the sax is in upright play position. Usually this is required because the geometry and mechanics the G# closing spring needs to be set quite stiff, and when that is added to the resistance of the bell keys the pinky B and Bb are quite hard to push. The more I learn, the more I have come to understand that everything has to do with balance and compromise to make everything work as it should.
I think possibly the biggest thing is something we've talked about here a few times: the key heights aren't supposed to all be the same.
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As far as the weighted key thing, my point is that it's something you can (easily) measure. I have a post elsewhere here regarding mechanical computer keyboards. They're all classified according to how much force it takes to press down the key. The amount of force you think is best is always subjective: I think that the most commonly considered best switch for typing, the MX Blue @ 50cN (centi-Newtons), doesn't feel as nice as the MX Red @ 40cN -- and I'm going to get a MX Brown at 45cN, just to see if it feels even better to me. Then I'll sell one of the others.
The other similarity is that you can alter two axes of force: on the sax, you have the key and the spring. On a mechanical keyboard, you can change the switch and the material the keycap is made of. I'm starting to wonder what the silver plated keycaps feel like. Or the gold plated ones. Considering they're something like $8 apiece and there's over 100 keys on my keyboard, I'm not going to be able to test that anytime soon.
Of course, you also have horns like the Grafton Acrylic Alto and the Vibratosax, which use coil springs, rather than straight springs or flat springs. That's a better thing to compare to the mechanical computer keyboard.
Also, if you go into the realm of electronica for a minute, there are synthesizer keyboards that have weighted keys and those that don't. The upthrust is that a pianist who sits down in front of a weighted keyboard should be a lot more comfortable with the weighted feel than with a non-weighted keyboard. As far as I'm concerned, because I'm not a pianist, I don't care if it's weighted or not. However, if someone gives me the same price on a weighted version of the same keyboard, I'll buy it.
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As far as the weighted key thing, my point is that it's something you can (easily) measure. I have a post elsewhere here regarding mechanical computer keyboards. They're all classified according to how much force it takes to press down the key. The amount of force you think is best is always subjective: I think that the most commonly considered best switch for typing, the MX Blue @ 50cN (centi-Newtons), doesn't feel as nice as the MX Red @ 40cN -- and I'm going to get a MX Brown at 45cN, just to see if it feels even better to me. Then I'll sell one of the others.
The other similarity is that you can alter two axes of force: on the sax, you have the key and the spring. On a mechanical keyboard, you can change the switch and the material the keycap is made of. I'm starting to wonder what the silver plated keycaps feel like. Or the gold plated ones. Considering they're something like $8 apiece and there's over 100 keys on my keyboard, I'm not going to be able to test that anytime soon.
Of course, you also have horns like the Grafton Acrylic Alto and the Vibratosax, which use coil springs, rather than straight springs or flat springs. That's a better thing to compare to the mechanical computer keyboard.
Also, if you go into the realm of electronica for a minute, there are synthesizer keyboards that have weighted keys and those that don't. The upthrust is that a pianist who sits down in front of a weighted keyboard should be a lot more comfortable with the weighted feel than with a non-weighted keyboard. As far as I'm concerned, because I'm not a pianist, I don't care if it's weighted or not. However, if someone gives me the same price on a weighted version of the same keyboard, I'll buy it.
After repairing instruments belonging to the best saxophone players in the world, I can assure you that mud flaps, reflectors, nodal weights, and precious stones do not affect the playing quality of saxophones nearly as much as a good repair job.
Most good saxophone players came to me as a repairman when their horns almost didn't play at all. They could "play through" small leaks and adjustments because they were great players. Sit in front of one of these guys and you will see what I mean.
Fix what is wrong. Don't invent problems that don't exist to take advantage of the naivete of inexperienced players. If you do you are a fraud.
Most good saxophone players came to me as a repairman when their horns almost didn't play at all. They could "play through" small leaks and adjustments because they were great players. Sit in front of one of these guys and you will see what I mean.
Fix what is wrong. Don't invent problems that don't exist to take advantage of the naivete of inexperienced players. If you do you are a fraud.
Substitute "pro" for "great" and you're the third tech I've heard this from.
That's what Doc Tenney always said about mouthpieces.
Here's a tale from Peter King's autobiography, "Flying High", about Paul Gonzalves.
"I remember Tubby (Hayes) and me jamming with him one night in Soho's Downbeat Club. Paul was a bit drunk but still playing his ass off. He suddenly turned to Tubby and me and said with obvious concern, "Hey man, There's something wrong with my horn." Tubby an I had a look and one of the pads was about an 1/8 inch above the tone hole. Neither Tubby nor I could get a note out of the thing ... He had somehow been playing a totally unplayable horn for over half an hour."