Guess what followed me home today??!!

Beautiful sax. If you're not going to play it immediately, may I suggest you hang it from the ceiling and call it the Olds mobile?
 
The octave mechanism with its wishbone design, teardrop octave lever, & moon-shaped left thumb rest look very similar to the Hammerschmidt horns. How many octave vents are in the body tube? 1 or 2?
 
The best pics I had of one of these is at http://www.saxpics.com/?v=gal&a=5259. I can definitely see what you mean about the octave mech, Helen. However the "wishbone" reminds me of Dolnet, such as http://www.saxpics.com/?v=gal&a=1396.

I've heard some suggestions that the Olds Super was made by Olds, themselves. Possible, but unlikely. I can say that it looks like these horns started with s/n 1 and went up to about 1,000 or so. Tenors are extremely uncommon and I'm not sure if the horn I linked to is original finish: it's the only lacquer one I've ever seen.

OldsSuper from http://forum.saxontheweb.net/archive/index.php/t-41525.html said:
The Olds Super Sax history, from a former executive at F.E. Olds & Son.

The Kanstul family runs Kanstul Music, a producer of Brasswinds previously associated with Benge. Zig Kanstul keeps business hours, but other Kanstul's appear throughout the web site for the company. He started his career working for FE Olds in the early 50's as a technician reaching the top of the company and overseeing it's success and decline. Kanstul Music has an amazing history of its own.

An alternate explanation of the Olds Super saxes. According to Mr Kanstul the Olds Super sax was made in very numbers run just before the start of WWII in the Los Angeles F.E Olds Plan. The company hired a former Martin Sax employee who had moved to the LA area (I failed to note his name during our discussion) As a result of this hire Olds developed the Olds Super sax models intended for the professional market. This was part of the companies evolving product line.

The instruments were produced in small numbers untill WWII interrupted civilian production. Mr Kanstul thought less than 2000 were produced, something beyond a prototype run, and enough to build interest in the new line. Full production wasn't ever achieved, the tooling was put in storage. The serial numbers reflect the pre-production nature of the Olds Super line. The instruments were not produced for the WWII effort, or under government contract, but they were new west coast instruments at the beginning of the war.

The similarity to Martin instruments is explained by the former Martin employee who did the design and tooling. Based on the timeframe, the Olds Super has common roots with he Martin Committee II line. In order to avoid Patent problems, the tooling was Olds proprietary production hardware and much of the construction differs from Martin instruments. The keywork, tone hole shapes 8va mechanism, and guards were unique to the Super Olds line.

Post war Olds Saxes were all made for the European branch of Olds. (The more familiar Ambassador and Parisian models.) The US Olds plant never produced additional Olds Super saxes. The tooling was shipped to a sax manufacturer in Holland as Olds production ended. It was last known to be rusting in a container in a small plant in Holland. (I failed to note the name of the company.)

Given Olds popular brasswind productss, and their postwar outsourcing of saxes, the Olds Super sax wasn't important to the company. No one noted it's production, serial numbers, and it faded away. Mr. Kanstul considered the sax line as a product that never developed it's own market. Much like art, it becomes more interesting when the artist can't make more.
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I've also heard that these horns were made for the US military in WWII. While some obviously survive, the bulk of them were in a ship that sank off the coast of Italy. (I can't immediately find a reference for this, tho.)
 
I see what you mean about the resemblance to Dolnet's wishbone octave mechanism Pete. Still, I'd like to see a clear view of the octave vents on the body tube, because in the pic of the Olds you linked to, it's hard to know for sure if there is more than the traditional 1.

The Olds looks like a horn that borrowed heavily from a number of different saxophone brands. I'm not sure how much Martin I see in it. I see a lot of European brands--not so much for the American ones.
 
Yo, Carl! More pics requested!

I don't have the time, ATM, to do a 1-by-1 comparison with a Committee or Indiana, at least from a look-and-feel point. I can say that the tone ring around the bell is an idea that (I'm pretty sure) appeared on the Buescher 400, first.
 
Helen said:
I see what you mean about the resemblance to Dolnet's wishbone octave mechanism Pete. Still, I'd like to see a clear view of the octave vents on the body tube, because in the pic of the Olds you linked to, it's hard to know for sure if there is more than the traditional 1.

The Olds looks like a horn that borrowed heavily from a number of different saxophone brands. I'm not sure how much Martin I see in it. I see a lot of European brands--not so much for the American ones.
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Looking more closely, it may be a copy of a Committee. There are lots of borrowed, very nice but still superficial do-dads for sure, including the soft soldered bell ring. What makes the horn play like what it is though, is the neck/body tube and where/how big the tone holes are. The basic construction is all Martin to my eyes.
 
List the shots you want, and I'll see what I can do tomorrow.



MartinMods said:
The basic construction is all Martin to my eyes.
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Sort of like, if you have a hammer, all problems look like nails? :)
 
If all you have is nails, then what do ya do?

The only pic I'm really interested in is of the octave key mech. Just a bit more than just the part you hit with your thumb. Octave pips, please.
 
http://s1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb362/Carl_H2000/

Pics
Carl_H2000
Carl_H2000
 
pete said:
If all you have is nails, then what do ya do?

The only pic I'm really interested in is of the octave key mech. Just a bit more than just the part you hit with your thumb. Octave pips, please.
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DSC01875.jpg
 
Quite shiny. Thanks. The Dolnet key mech is essentially an inverted version of this (or vice-versa, if you prefer). It's also not the same mechanism that's on the Committee, Handcraft Committee II or Centennial. The G# cluster is similar to the the HC Committee II (Olds, HC Committee II), and not like an Indiana. The chromatic F# key and altissimo keys look pretty simular to me, on both the HC Comm II and Olds.

Note that I haven't said "Martin-made." Here, at least :).
 
Next thing to do is to decide on the pad/resonator combo.

It has the original riveted tan pads in it.

I've been doing white Roo with seamless metal domed on all my saxes but don't know if I should go ahead with them on this instrument - knowing what was original.


Noyeks are OUT
black Roo is OUT


I haven't put a mouthpiece to it yet, so I have no idea how it sounds now.


I need to decide on a case pretty soon too. The original is in decent condition, but has the funk. I tried it in a shaped protec and it fit as well as if not better than the original case, so nothing exotic is required for this sax.
 
MartinMods said:
I like the octave key roller.
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Ditto. It was an ingenious way to eliminate friction before the age of teflon. I would definitely go with white roos and seamles domed reso's. Nothing looks better on a silver saxophone. Pictured below is a True Tone alto that I recently restored using the white roo pads.


TrueToneWhitePads-1.jpg
 
Anybody have any first hand experience with the protec Stonewood Alto Saxophone Case?


ed4255206c0f9d234b8651d99df6ec94.image.260x260.gif






Looks like a nice modern take on a vintage case. If it checks out I think this might be a good match for a clean old horn like this. The only things bothering me so far (I have yet to see one first hand) is the handle seems a bit , , , eecchhh, and the fact that there are only 2 latches.
 
Crusin' the net, I came across a restored Super alto. The price is 380,000 Yen. Translated into US dollars, that's $4,993.57. Hey, there was a more rare Super tenor that was in about the same shape as Carl's horn that sold for $1800 on eBay, about a month ago.

I'm writing a blog article on the Super. I'm fairly confident that the Super is an Olds in-house make, rather than some permutation of a Martin make. There are mitigating facts, though: the later Olds Studio is a Martin Imperial stencil and the much later Olds Super Star happens to be some Asian-ish SSO (sax shaped object). It's easy to get things confused when you've got simular names and both "Martin looking" and "actual Martin" horns.

Hey, Carl: can you write down everything that's on the tone ring? I found an Olds catalog that had a ink drawing, but it only read "Super Olds." Your ring (and all the other Olds Super saxes) has more writing.

Oh. To clear up one thing quick, it is an "Olds Super," not a "Super Olds." It's in the Olds catalogs. Another fun thing to get confused with.
 
pete said:
Hey, Carl: can you write down everything that's on the tone ring?
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Deluxe, 66, 88, 98, series 60, series 70, series 90, 442, Cutlass, F85, Vista Cruiser, Toronado, Omega, Starfire

Hmmm That doesn't seem right. Maybe I should get it out later and read it.

:emoji_rage:
 
Har-har. The Toronado always looked like a beast of a car.

I owned one of the last models from Oldsmobile, the Alero. It was a Pontiac Grand Am with a different body. Always had electrical problems with it.
 
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