Neck & barrel pickup

clarnibass

clarnibass

I just started experimenting with one of those pickups that connect to a clarient barrel or sax neck. I also attached it to my bass clarinet neck. Here are a couple of photos and a short (and almost random) sample I just recorded and put some effects on.

So far it's very promising and will work exactly as intended, best for certain situations. The tone isn't as natural as my clip-on mics (I use AMT) or other clip-on mics I've tried. Also not as good as some condenser (sometimes also dynamic) microphones for recordings with a natural tone. But for the purpose it's great. Very high input with no feedback and no problems in a noisy area.

The pickup I'm using is actually intended for soprano clarinet and the entire range is very even. With bass clarinet, there's a very slight higher response around 130Hz, which is a very minor issue. Might get a good EQ to deal with it, or not. There is slightly more key noise than the clip-ons or other mics, which for me is sometimes an advantage. There's less of it with a louder signla "earlier". This sample recording is with a mixer without a correct input. I'll get a better mixer/preamp for a better signal.

http://soundcloud.com/clarnibass/1st-pickup-exp
 
What an interesting recording. The mic does sound very good as does the playing. What effects are you using to get the echo sound? Are you slap tonguing to get that drum effect?

Also how are you attaching the microphone to the neck and the barrel? I am assuming there are no holes going through the wall into the bore as there were on the old sax contact microphones.
 
jbtsax said:
What effects are you using to get the echo sound? Are you slap tonguing to get that drum effect?
Click to expand...
Not sure if by echo you mean the delay or the reverb, but there's both delay and a little reverb. There's also a tiny bit of overdrive.
Yes, it's slap tonguing.

jbtsax said:
Also how are you attaching the microphone to the neck and the barrel? I am assuming there are no holes going through the wall into the bore as there were on the old sax contact microphones.
Click to expand...
Actually there are holes in both the barrel and the neck, just like the old sax contact pickups. The pickup is screwed into a threaded hole in the barrel or a threaded extension to the bass clarinet neck.
 
Very interesting
Do you think this would work with a contra bass clarinet? I want it to function just like a string bass so it needs to be a fairly dry sound with no effects and a good attack on each note.
What pickup are you using?

clarnibass said:
With bass clarinet, there's a very slight higher response around 130Hz, which is a very minor issue. Might get a good EQ to deal with it, or not. There is slightly more key noise than the clip-ons or other mics, which for me is sometimes an advantage. There's less of it with a louder signla "earlier". This sample recording is with a mixer without a correct input. I'll get a better mixer/preamp for a better signal.

http://soundcloud.com/clarnibass/1st-pickup-exp
Click to expand...

I'm sorry what notes would 130Hz be around. In another thread somebody said with soprano the low E and 3rd line B were louder then the rest of the notes.
 
A lot depends on the specific pickup. With mine, the E and B on soprano clarinet are not louder. I get very even response with a soprano clarinet. The 130hz area is around and especially the D just below the staff on bass clarinet. It is a small difference and it is still the best amplification when I want to isolate my sound and prevent feedback, both are necessary in certain situations. It has to do with the specific pickup on the specific instrument, since it is no problem with the G clarinets that are often used with this pickup, I heard it and it was even for this note too.

I don't know anyone who uses the same one on contrabass clarinet, but I know someone who uses a contact mic connected to the reed and it works very well. There is no other way to get even amplification in certain situations. There is some compromise to the tone but often this doesn't matter or actually the tone would be worse with other types of mics.

I would probably first get a small and inexpensive contact (piezo) mic and experiment. It is much cheaper than a "real" pickup and can work great.
 
When I worked with Bobby Mintzer In Jaco Pastorius' band, he used a Barcus Berry contact pickup on the reed of his bass clarinet. The sound crew had no problem amplifying his bass clarinet to a very high volume with no feedback whatsoever.

I'm sure there were some effects used on his bass clarinet, but they were rather subtle. The horn always sounded like a bass clarinet.
 
clarnibass said:
A lot depends on the specific pickup. With mine, the E and B on soprano clarinet are not louder. I get very even response with a soprano clarinet. The 130hz area is around and especially the D just below the staff on bass clarinet. It is a small difference and it is still the best amplification when I want to isolate my sound and prevent feedback, both are necessary in certain situations. It has to do with the specific pickup on the specific instrument, since it is no problem with the G clarinets that are often used with this pickup, I heard it and it was even for this note too.

I don't know anyone who uses the same one on contrabass clarinet, but I know someone who uses a contact mic connected to the reed and it works very well. There is no other way to get even amplification in certain situations. There is some compromise to the tone but often this doesn't matter or actually the tone would be worse with other types of mics.

I would probably first get a small and inexpensive contact (piezo) mic and experiment. It is much cheaper than a "real" pickup and can work great.
Click to expand...

Thank you Clarnibass
This helps a lot. Ted at Bluestar Music. Suggested The Shadow SH 4001 saxophone and clarinet transducer. It attaches to the reed of the instrument and it's supposed provides a very clean, natural sound. The SH 4001 has a cable attached to the pickup with a standard 1/4" male plug, which can be used to plug directly into your amplifier or PA system.
http://www.bluestarmusic.com/Shadow-SH-4001-SaxophoneClarinet-Pickup-wCable-P743.aspx
He also suggested the Barcus-Berry 5600. The promo info;
The Barcus-Berry 5600 system includes a lightweight contact microphone for use on a Saxophone or Harmonica. The system has wide-band frequency response, excellent dynamic range, and provides clean, faithful reproduction of the acoustic sound. The contact microphone attaches directly to your instrument, and connects to the preamp with the included 1/8" male to RCA male connecting cable.

The included 3000A preamp provides power to the contact microphone, and also increases the signal strength to allow connecting to any amplifier, mixer or PA system. The 3000A preamp also provides bass and treble controls, along with a volume control and a standard 1/4" female output jack (instrument cable not included).

Includes the 5600 contact microphone, 3000A preamp/eq/power supply, connecting cable and attachment adhesives. Runs from a standard 9 volt battery (not included).

Note: The Barcus-Berry 5600 is the replacement for the original Barcus-Berry C5200, which has been discontinued. Please note that the packaging and instructions may reference only the harmonica usage, but it has been confirmed with Barcus-Berry that this pickup will work on Saxophone. Not recommended for use with soprano and other high tone clarinets as they may not produce enough resonance at the bell to properly activate the sensor.
http://www.bluestarmusic.com/Barcus...-Preamp-for-Saxophone-or-Harmonica-P1738.aspx

This passive pickup system has sufficient output to drive most amplifiers directly. A preamp is not required for most amplifiers, but you may want a preamp if you wish to control volume or equalization (bass/treble) or if you are plugging into a PA or mixer board.

What model pickup are you using Clarnibass?
thanks again

Groovekiller said:
When I worked with Bobby Mintzer In Jaco Pastorius' band, he used a Barcus Berry contact pickup on the reed of his bass clarinet. The sound crew had no problem amplifying his bass clarinet to a very high volume with no feedback whatsoever.

I'm sure there were some effects used on his bass clarinet, but they were rather subtle. The horn always sounded like a bass clarinet.
Click to expand...

Hi GrooveKiller
That's pretty awesome that you worked with Jaco and bob Mintzer.
You can see what looks like a strip of tape on the mouthpiece over the reed. Is this the setup he was using when you were there?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTrdHb0nRUA

Thanks again to you both.
 
Bobsax, I don't think I would get that contact mic for almost $100. You can get a contact mic for around $10 to try first and it might be as good as the $100 one. You have to try and that's what I would try first. Search on ebay for piezo pickup and you will find many. Get one of those smaller round ones. I can also ask for you where to find the flexible thin ones which are more comfortable if interested. You'd then need a regular TS cable i.e. 1/4" mono connections.

In that video it's hard to tell, but it looks like a neck pickup. It could be a pickup on the reed though, just can't be sure. the tone sounds like a combination his tone and maybe some effect on it or just the way his pickup sounds.

I don't know if I would get the Barcus Berry either. Unless you want a real pickup that would connect to a hole in the instrument, you are staying with contact mics on the reed probably and I would start with the cheap piezo one first and see how it works. A decent pickup doesn't really need a preamp but you can use one to improve it if you want. It might improve the signal.

The pickup I use is the TAP NANO-R. I like to have the input volume "wheel" but to be honest I keep it at maximum all the time so it really isn't necessary. Their versions without it cost less. For some reason, this model sounds significantly different than all others. But the Eastern tone they have in their samples is mostly the player. I sound very different with the pickup.

There are also the PT100 and PT110 pickups. They use a slightly different mounting method (slip in instead of screw in) which is better in some ways but I prefer screw in.
http://gtc-music1.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=47
http://gtc-music1.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=66
 
I can't really think of a specific chart, but probably 80% or more of what I play is improvised anyway, so I'd use almost all effects mostly for improvised music. Even the composed music I play is almost always new composed music, or occasionally modern "classical" music. I rarely (maybe never) play "known vocals".
 
hi clarnibass,

I'm actually looking for TAP resellers, but I can't find anything.
where did you buy your TAP NANO-R ? did you try other models ?
on their website they don't really explains differencies between models, and don't mention the prices !

thks
 
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