http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220486865419&_trkparms=tab=Watching
I contacted the owner. The sale is pending at 1700. Steal or what????
I contacted the owner. The sale is pending at 1700. Steal or what????
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ooooooooooooooh!
- Thread starter rleitch
- Start date
Does seem rather on the low side. Maybe someone will come in at the last minute with something higher.
Most of the Zeph baris we've seen lately have all been of the late model variety (read more student model type). This one is of course the real deal.
I wonder whether or not it really plays, if the pads are of a good quality and well installed, and what condition the rest of the horn is in (springs, corks, felts, etc), or if you're looking at having to do a partial or full restoration. Call me jaded, but I hardly ever believe anything I read on eBay, or any other on-line auction or sales site.
Most of the Zeph baris we've seen lately have all been of the late model variety (read more student model type). This one is of course the real deal.
I wonder whether or not it really plays, if the pads are of a good quality and well installed, and what condition the rest of the horn is in (springs, corks, felts, etc), or if you're looking at having to do a partial or full restoration. Call me jaded, but I hardly ever believe anything I read on eBay, or any other on-line auction or sales site.
I don't think you're being jaded here. I could easy cost a small bundle of cash to get the horn to play. The one key is bent and there's no good photos of the pads the seller says were installed in the '90s. That's at least 10 years ago. Figure at least a full repad if not a basic overhaul.
Don't think me total negative here. I'm sure it it'll be great horn when made to play that way. Just expect to pay for that.
Yeah!
I was figuring 2500 total--which still seems like a great deal for a vintage King bari that looks that good. I had a close match silver King tenor and it was great.
I asked the seller about that bent-looking key, and he swears it's just the photo: looks buggered to me though?
Anyway, I'm not planning to buy...just yacking!
I was figuring 2500 total--which still seems like a great deal for a vintage King bari that looks that good. I had a close match silver King tenor and it was great.
I asked the seller about that bent-looking key, and he swears it's just the photo: looks buggered to me though?
Anyway, I'm not planning to buy...just yacking!
generally ebay's a crap shoot, but I've been lucky so far with the two horns I've bought there, one a very nice all original near mint Buescher 140 alto & the other a late pre-Selmer 400 tenor still retaining it's snap ins & gold Nortons....the tenor required some minor tweaking but did play as it came (without a case). the alto played fine, might have had a leak or two, can't remember. neither was a serious high dollar purchase though.
Where do you get a rebuild on a bari for $800 in Halifax? Maybe Layne might have done it for that price in his private shop, but unless you find someone who works for themselves? Long & McQuade charges $1,300 for an overhaul on a tenor here in the Vancouver store... At least that's what they told a friend of mine when he took his vintage sax in.
What happened to your silver King tenor? Why did you sell? Eons ago, I owned a late model (post HN White) Super 20 tenor that I sold to get my Mark VI. Then a year ago I had a chance to play-test some Zephyr tenors at World Wide Sax. I fell in love with the ugly duckling in the bunch because of its sound. After waffling over it for a few months, I phoned Sarge and told him that I wanted to buy the horn. Just a couple of weeks ago I became the proud new owner of a 1950 naturally delacquered Zeph.
This sax has, in only a few short weeks, become my primary tenor, and my VI has become the backup horn. So that's why I ask: Why did you sell your Zeph? I can't imagine selling mine. This has to be the most versatile horn I have.
Hey Helen,
My Silver King was an early Cleveland (c-45xxx), a very close cousin to this guy:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170330068383&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
And, hence, not too far removed, I think, from that USM Zephyr Bari!
Alas, I foolishly sold it to a friend in Toronto who complimented me on the sound I was getting on it. I used the cash to buy a T901, which didn't really float my boat at all.
Marius doesn't work for L&M anymore, so his prices are better and more flexible.
Must...stop...thinking...about...silver...saxophone!
R.
My Silver King was an early Cleveland (c-45xxx), a very close cousin to this guy:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170330068383&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
And, hence, not too far removed, I think, from that USM Zephyr Bari!
Alas, I foolishly sold it to a friend in Toronto who complimented me on the sound I was getting on it. I used the cash to buy a T901, which didn't really float my boat at all.
Marius doesn't work for L&M anymore, so his prices are better and more flexible.
Must...stop...thinking...about...silver...saxophone!
R.
Oh, thinking about a silver saxophone is fine... Buying one is fine too... But, then look at the source of this bit of "wisdom". Too many saxes... Too small a studio. 
Good to hear you have an alternative to L&M to take your horn(s) to. I just took one of my new Klingsors to someone today who has his own place as well. He used to work for one of L&M's competitor's in Vancouver (he was their head tech I believe), but then had the chance to open his own shop in the 'burbs a couple of years ago. Lots of pros travel for many miles to see him, not only because of his prices & because he his a really fair guy, but because he's one of the best. He trained in Europe as not only a repair technician, but also an instrument maker.
So...Back to the subject at hand...Did you buy it? Did ya? Did ya? Well... Come on... Fess up...
Good to hear you have an alternative to L&M to take your horn(s) to. I just took one of my new Klingsors to someone today who has his own place as well. He used to work for one of L&M's competitor's in Vancouver (he was their head tech I believe), but then had the chance to open his own shop in the 'burbs a couple of years ago. Lots of pros travel for many miles to see him, not only because of his prices & because he his a really fair guy, but because he's one of the best. He trained in Europe as not only a repair technician, but also an instrument maker.
So...Back to the subject at hand...Did you buy it? Did ya? Did ya? Well... Come on... Fess up...
The listing ended at $2500.
The Zephyr (and a low Bb bari) really isn't my cup of tea, but it was a pretty horn.
@ rleitch: Which key was bent?
@ Helen: Looking at that horn, I'd say it needs all new pads, corks and felts. At minimum. I do think it'd be a good player after the rebuild but ... $2500 + the cost of an overhaul, say $800 for the minimum in this thread, takes you almost into brand spankin' new horn range. Or a really, really good used Yamaha.
The Zephyr (and a low Bb bari) really isn't my cup of tea, but it was a pretty horn.
@ rleitch: Which key was bent?
@ Helen: Looking at that horn, I'd say it needs all new pads, corks and felts. At minimum. I do think it'd be a good player after the rebuild but ... $2500 + the cost of an overhaul, say $800 for the minimum in this thread, takes you almost into brand spankin' new horn range. Or a really, really good used Yamaha.
Well, there was that Keilwerth-made Bundy that sold for, what, $500? Hey, you put another $3K into that, and I'd bet that you could not only make it better than factory new, but get it silver plated. And that's a good horn.
My real problem with vintage baritones is the lack of low A keys on them. You've got some Martin Magnas with low A keys and ... no other American horns. Hey, I've mentioned that the late 1920's gold-plated Buescher True Tone bari I played had EXCELLENT tone, but it didn't have that low A and the ergos weren't that great.
(Yes, I am excepting the Conn 11M, which is a newer 12M body with an extension on the bell. I've read too much about how you really need to disable the low A to get the bell keys to play in good tune on that horn.)
European horns? Lots of those had low A keys, but the only real bargain is going to be an older Keilwerth, particularly a stencil or a close relative, like the Amati Toneking (generally Keilwerth body), Weltklang (Richard Keilwerth design) or a Dorfler & Jurka (absorbed into Keilwerth), but these are getting harder to find, so a really good Yamaha at a really good price -- like that YBS-61 -- might be a better option. At least, for those of us who could never justify buying both a low A and a low Bb horn.
My real problem with vintage baritones is the lack of low A keys on them. You've got some Martin Magnas with low A keys and ... no other American horns. Hey, I've mentioned that the late 1920's gold-plated Buescher True Tone bari I played had EXCELLENT tone, but it didn't have that low A and the ergos weren't that great.
(Yes, I am excepting the Conn 11M, which is a newer 12M body with an extension on the bell. I've read too much about how you really need to disable the low A to get the bell keys to play in good tune on that horn.)
European horns? Lots of those had low A keys, but the only real bargain is going to be an older Keilwerth, particularly a stencil or a close relative, like the Amati Toneking (generally Keilwerth body), Weltklang (Richard Keilwerth design) or a Dorfler & Jurka (absorbed into Keilwerth), but these are getting harder to find, so a really good Yamaha at a really good price -- like that YBS-61 -- might be a better option. At least, for those of us who could never justify buying both a low A and a low Bb horn
.
Low A? Nope. My 12M doesn't have it, and I don't want it. I can't justify schlepping the extra weight and sacrificing a better sound just for a note I would rarely play. To each his own...
Well there you go!
Nope I didn't buy it. I have some mental clarity left and, I think, the last thing I need is to start learning how to sound exactly like me on a Bari! Anyway, I'm way too lazy to lug one of those bad boys around.
I have a clip of me from 2006 on that Silver Tenor if anybody wants to see/hear it.
Pete: the one under the bell brace in the pics looks really bent to me?
This was fun though! I think I'll try another one
What do you guys think of this
http://doctorsax.biz/olds_opera_tenor_4729.htm
Nope I didn't buy it. I have some mental clarity left and, I think, the last thing I need is to start learning how to sound exactly like me on a Bari! Anyway, I'm way too lazy to lug one of those bad boys around.
I have a clip of me from 2006 on that Silver Tenor if anybody wants to see/hear it.
Pete: the one under the bell brace in the pics looks really bent to me?
This was fun though! I think I'll try another one
What do you guys think of this
http://doctorsax.biz/olds_opera_tenor_4729.htm
They've already removed most of the pics of the Z. However, I've archived 'em. Album.
I see what you mean, rltech, looking at this pic. It does look like the original key, though, so it probably can be relatively easily fixed.
==========
As I've mentioned, I owned a Dynaction alto. Hey, they link to my quote in that doctorsax ad. That's nice. I hope the check is in the mail.
Personally, I think he's a little high and I dislike it when techs remove keys. I do prefer the Opera engraving, though.
It's a nice tenor. I hope it finds a good home.
* Better Dynaction directory: http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/buffet/dynaction
* Dynaction ads http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/buffet/misc/catalogsnmisc/Dynaction/
I see what you mean, rltech, looking at this pic. It does look like the original key, though, so it probably can be relatively easily fixed.
==========
As I've mentioned, I owned a Dynaction alto. Hey, they link to my quote in that doctorsax ad. That's nice. I hope the check is in the mail
.Personally, I think he's a little high and I dislike it when techs remove keys. I do prefer the Opera engraving, though.
It's a nice tenor. I hope it finds a good home.
* Better Dynaction directory: http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/buffet/dynaction
* Dynaction ads http://www.saxpics.com/the_gallery/buffet/misc/catalogsnmisc/Dynaction/
Yeah, that's the one. Seems to me there's no way that can be closing right?
Yeah2, the price on the Opera seems very high to me too. A stencil is a stencil after all (says the guy who plays the Dick Stabile tenor).
R.
ps. does this mean you don't want to see that clip??? too late
http://www.dailymotion.com/user/rleitch/video/xapbe2_stpattys-day-tipitina_music
Yeah2, the price on the Opera seems very high to me too. A stencil is a stencil after all (says the guy who plays the Dick Stabile tenor).
R.
ps. does this mean you don't want to see that clip??? too late
http://www.dailymotion.com/user/rleitch/video/xapbe2_stpattys-day-tipitina_music
Yah. The 11M is a 12M with a bell that has a straight (not conical -- no pun intended) extension added so you have a low A.
When I played, I played the low A enough, in both jazz and classical, to make it necessary to have an instrument that would go that low. Besides, it intimidated the bass trombone player in a couple groups I played in. Especially when I used my rubber Berg Larsen 110/0.
In my opinion -- which seems to be shared by most manufacturers, today, based on the horns that are out there -- I can't justify not getting a bari without a low A. The only reason you wouldn't want one is if you think that one of the vintage horns without a low A is so wonderful that the exclusion of this key isn't that big a deal. Hey, if someone went back to 1989 and offered me the minty low Bb Mark VI I played for the same price as that YBS-52 I bought, I'd be fairly conflicted, because the tone was that good. However, that's also adding the rule that I couldn't resell the VI and buy a YBS-52, YTS-23 and YAS-23 and maybe a 1981 Firebird ....
Their opinions are influenced, of course, by demand.
The other only reason is weight.
I A/B'd a low A Mark VI and a low Bb Mark VI. That's a small sample, I agree, but the difference was significant.
Big band players need the low A nowadays. Many charts use it. Particularly if the tune is in concert C.
On the other hand, I seldom play even the low B and Bb. Bari is a solo instrument for me. I don't do section work. Low notes are for every now and then. The more musical range for the kinds of lines I play is halfway up the staff and above.
But if you gotta have it you gotta have it...
I think the "weight" argument is overrated. Balance might be more of an issue. Hey, off the top of my head a Keilwerth SX90R bari is all of 11lbs. That's a low A horn. (I just checked their website, again. I'm right.) I seem to remember the 12M weighing around 9-10lbs. Two rolls of pennies = appx. one pound.
(Yes, I remember this kind of trivia. Does that make me odd?)
I know there's an SOTW thread on this. Allow me to Google. Ah.
http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-13843.html
BTB, regarding the VI bari, I've only played MAYBE two. I've read a survey from Paul Cohen that said his students prefer the SBA bari -- which I've never played.
(Yes, I remember this kind of trivia. Does that make me odd?)
I know there's an SOTW thread on this. Allow me to Google. Ah.
http://www.saxontheweb.net/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-13843.html
BTB, regarding the VI bari, I've only played MAYBE two. I've read a survey from Paul Cohen that said his students prefer the SBA bari -- which I've never played.
Re: the whole Low A vs Low Bb debate. I spent years being primarily a bari player, and I did very well with only a low Bb bari... I did have a bit of help however. I know I've posted this before, but I don't think it's been on the Woodwind Forum, so here goes...
Years ago Paul Coats developed a low A extension for low Bb baris. You insert it into the bell of your horn, much like a trumpet player would insert a mute. You play your note, and then take it out, or leave it in, depending on the circumstances.
You use a 6" long piece of 4" drain pipe spray painted the colour of your horn. Then you add some weather stripping around the end that gets stuck into the bell, and presto: instant low A when you finger your low Bb.
I have had pictures, along with Paul's full directions posted on my website for years. Then a couple of years ago I got an email from someone who had to modify this length somewhat so that it work on his 1920 Adolphe Sax (Selmer) baritone. Kevin was good enough to send some pictures, and even a sound clip of his low Selmer-made Sax horn in action.
It wasn't until I decided to get a back-up bari, that I decided to get a low A horn... And for me, weight does definitely factor into the equation. Now because the horns are different brands (a low Bb Mark VI & a B&S Medusa Low A) I can't be sure that the extra bell length alone explains the weight difference. However, the Selmer is of course made with ribbed construction, while the Medusa isn't, so I would think that would have some bearing on the overall weight of the instruments. (Along with the different metal composition, different metal thickness, etc, etc.) All I know is that the low A bari is a killer for me to play around my neck, while the low Bb isn't.
Now all this talk has got me curious enough that I'm going to have to get my bathroom scale and bring it to my studio. I'll have to weigh both horns, because I'm really curious what the difference in weight really is.
Years ago Paul Coats developed a low A extension for low Bb baris. You insert it into the bell of your horn, much like a trumpet player would insert a mute. You play your note, and then take it out, or leave it in, depending on the circumstances.
You use a 6" long piece of 4" drain pipe spray painted the colour of your horn. Then you add some weather stripping around the end that gets stuck into the bell, and presto: instant low A when you finger your low Bb.
I have had pictures, along with Paul's full directions posted on my website for years. Then a couple of years ago I got an email from someone who had to modify this length somewhat so that it work on his 1920 Adolphe Sax (Selmer) baritone. Kevin was good enough to send some pictures, and even a sound clip of his low Selmer-made Sax horn in action.
It wasn't until I decided to get a back-up bari, that I decided to get a low A horn... And for me, weight does definitely factor into the equation. Now because the horns are different brands (a low Bb Mark VI & a B&S Medusa Low A) I can't be sure that the extra bell length alone explains the weight difference. However, the Selmer is of course made with ribbed construction, while the Medusa isn't, so I would think that would have some bearing on the overall weight of the instruments. (Along with the different metal composition, different metal thickness, etc, etc.) All I know is that the low A bari is a killer for me to play around my neck, while the low Bb isn't.
Now all this talk has got me curious enough that I'm going to have to get my bathroom scale and bring it to my studio. I'll have to weigh both horns, because I'm really curious what the difference in weight really is.