professional Screwdrivers

[Steve]

In another thread that I cannot find, we were talking about which screwdrivers and other tools that we liked.

In one particular subject we chatted about Ferrees screwdrivers and how brittle the tips were.

Recently Ferrees offered just the tip part for sale now. Interesting that it had replacement blades but replacements were not available for a long time. BUT now they are !!

Anyways, here are a few pictures that show a broken tip, the tip profile, the back end of the blade which has flat spots, which the two opposing screws screw down on.

BELOW: The two opposing set screws (screwed out) which tighten down on the flat part of the blade

BELOW: The top tip is the profile of the blade. This is a new blade.
middle: is the broken tip
lower: the edge of the back of the blade is flat which allows the set screws to prevent the rod from rotating.

 

[Steve]

These particular tips, which I have a long and short version of, are perfect for those small clarinet screws. If you noticed the tip profile, it allows the blade to go into the slot in order to unscrew/screw the rod or pivot screw.

These tip profiles are machined specifically for these type of small slots.

General screwdrivers have tips which are not flat but a diminishing width. These are okay for certain duties but only have a small point of contact and may actually spread apart the screw slot.

 

[Steve]

This also brings up another potential scenario about those slot screws removal/installation.

I use a specific plier which is a small swedging plier to remove rod screws.
If one uses too much pressure on a regular plier to remove a rode screw many times a tech will crimp together the slot. This is a pain to correct.

I use a small swedging plier and make sure I have it aligned with the slot to prevent any crimping. The swedging plier also has round sides which fit the rod screw really well, versus a flat section which only give a small on spot touching the rod screw. pictures to follow ...

 

[Steve]

Below is information and pictures stolen from the web of Kraus screwdrivers. They are not as brittle as Ferrees and are also excellent screwdrivers. I'll post some up close pics of them later to compare to the Ferrees. (unless someone else wants to take some pics)

Our screwdriver blades are strong, tough and durable. Our blades are made from a special tool steel that lets us harden them to a higher hardness, without becoming brittle. The steel we use costs us better than four times more than the steel used by other manufacturers, and the heat treat process we specify is so unique that no other products go in the vacuum furnace at the same time as our blades. Can you break our blades? Of course. But ask any technician who has our screwdrivers, and they will tell you that our blades last much longer than any others.


Not only is our steel and heat treatment better, but we make our blades in sizes that actually fit band instrument screws! You have your choice of seven different diameters, and most diameters have a choice of length. Always use the largest diameter blade that will fit each screw. If you match the diameter of the screwdriver blade closely to the diameter of the screw, you lessen the chance of damaging the screw or overloading the tip of the blade. And to help you keep your sanity, we have machined a flat spot on the back end of every blade to match the set screws in the body, keeping the blades from turning in the bodies when you apply maximum torque.

 

[Gandalfe]

I have a number of screwdriver sets like this that have lasted me for over 15 years. I keep one in my music bag along with my tuner, pencil, standlight, etc. At around $10, they last forever. How do these differ from the more expensive one?

 

[Steve]

When I get a chance I'll take some pics of a $10 set and compare many things.

Keep in mind, these screw drivers are used continuously and may get pounded on from time to time (plastic need not apply).

Also, you are stuck with the length there. Professional screwdrivers may be 3 inches long or 8 inches long. This keeps your hands away from tight places and keeps the screwdriver straight onto the screw. The short ones don't allow that.

They are also used many times to torque on a screw, which may be stuck. If your instrument is in good condition this type of torque is not needed.

But there are only a few options a tech has to remove a tight screw that does not want to come out. The first option is torquing on the screw itself and hope it finally moves. Second is using a "super" lube or penetrator on the thread area and hope it penetrates which makes removal easier. Third is heating the post/screw, then torquing on the screw,

Also many general screwdrivers just don't have the profile to handle the really small screws properly. reference Flutes and oboes and clarinets.

One issue I had was when I broke a tip a screw was not coming out. Thus I used one of my small general screw drivers which does not have a flat tip. It basically then broke off half of the rod screw tip. Which then required me to drill out the rod screw thread area, creating a new rod screw, et all. Not fun for such a simple thing.

I do use the cheap screwdrivers from time to time. They have that roughed up handle which is perfect for using non-smooth pliers and using it to really torque a screw, assuming you don't break the tip it self.

 

[pete]

As a computer tech, I use small screwdrivers and allen wrenches. 'Course, I also use "standard" size common and Philips screwdrivers.

The best precision screwdrivers I've used are made by Craftsman. They look like these, even though this one's a bit big.

I've wanted a precision set that was all metal, but I've only seen things like the $10 set, mentioned earlier. Rarely do I see a set that has Torx T0 in a set, not to mention tri-lobe or penta-lobe.

So, I'm interested in seeing what's suggested here!

 

[SOTSDO]

Micro Tools

Micro Tools, a firm beloved by model railroaders for many years, has a wide assortment of small nut and cap screw drivers. However, I don't know of any parallel ground screwdriver blades - here is the first place I have ever seen that mentioned.

When dealing with horns, I am very careful with the amount of torque that I placed into rods and the like. If it doesn't move smoothly and without binding, I leave it alone and let my repairmen deal with it.

 

[jbtsax]

The Kraus screwdrivers have been the standard in the repair industry for many years. Unfortunately he is no longer offering them once the remaining stock of blades is gone.

JL Smith has come out with his own similar style screwdrivers to fill the void. Time will tell if they are the same quality as Ed's blades. http://www.jlsmithco.com/JLS-GOLD-GRIP-SCREWDRIVERS

For those on a budget these Micro sets offered by Votaw are a great value. http://www.votawtool.com/zcom.asp?pg=products&specific=jqdqjmj0

 

[clarnibass]

I assume in the first post you are talking about those relatively new Ferree's screwdrivers (came out only a few years ago I think). I've tried them and didn't like them at all. Just weren't comfortable. I later read from several people about them being a little brittle.

I have a bunch of the Kraus screwdrivers and handles and actually don't use them for normal screws unless "necessary" i.e. for stuck screws and when the size/length is absolutely critial and they have the best fit. They are important enough to keep them in the best condition I can, but they areally are the best IMO. The tips are slightly thick on these so they don't work great with very narrow slots.

I haven't tried the J.L. Smith screwdrivers yet but interested to try them sometimes. So far reports claim they are more bendy than the Kraus ones.

I imagine like most repairers I'm using many different screwdrivers. Basically every screwdriver will either tend to break first or bend first. IME the best ones will have some sort of optimal "compromise" but usually tend to break more than bend (even if they rarely do). Most of the cheap ones usually bend. I like the Wiha ones and don't think I've broken or bent any yet. A type I really like is Wera, IMO good material and shape. I had a really small one break a little bit. I have a few other ones that are also decent but these usually bend, lousy for difficult screws.

How/where do others keep their screwdrivers? I have about ten just on the table, no stand is "fast" enough. The others I use sometimes are in a glass on the table. BTW a couple of the ones that are on the table are not used as screwdrivers.

Re Gandlafe's question, these cheap sets will last a long time if you don't use them in ways that would prevent that. Repairers need screwdrivers that will tolerate a lot more abuse than most other people. Sometimes fit, alignment, length, handle diameter, etc. are all critical. Even screwdrivers much better and more expensive than these cheap ones sometimes break and bend for repairers.

One issue I had was when I broke a tip a screw was not coming out. Thus I used one of my small general screw drivers which does not have a flat tip. It basically then broke off half of the rod screw tip. Which then required me to drill out the rod screw thread area, creating a new rod screw, et all. Not fun for such a simple thing.

When for whatever reason a slot is ruined I re-slot a rod or pivot screw while it's still in the post, without damaging the post, with a tiny reversed cone bit in the micromotor.

 

[Steve]

To jump off of Gandalfe's questions :

Like clarnibass mentioned .. we have many types and lengths. So here are a few of various cost/quality:

Bottom up: ferrees long & short (same tip) used for small clarinet screws,
Helo german made used for the bigger clarinet screws and sax
Stanley - your typical inexpensive set. I have a cheaper set than this too which is nearly identical except the finishing (smooth grinding, nickel plating, etc) is visually not anywhere as good.
To the right - yellow caps are a couple Sears Craftsman screw drivers
far rigth - some other brand I can't recall

 

[Steve]

In relation to the length, it really becomes important when you doing this frequently.

If you go to the first post and look at the 2nd picture and the middle screwdriver one will notice wear marks at two locations. This would be when tightening/loosening the C# key on the clarinet, the wear marks are from the B post.

The Stanley screwdrivers really are not good when dealing in this area. They are "ok" with the trill keys where the rods are vertical from the body. But screws that are parallel to the body make the longer screwdrivers much nicer to work with.

BELOW: This picture shows the shorter of the Ferree screwdriver on the C# key

BELOW: This shows the longer Ferree screwdriver on the Eb/C key

BELOW: This shows the standard screwdriver on the C# key

BELOW: This shows the standard screwdriver on the Eb/C key

BELOW: This picture is a bit fuzzy, but what you are looking at is the blade tip is actually twisted. This comes from too short of a handle and thus the rotating / pivoting motion as one tries to screw in/out screws. Thus one of the importances of longer handles

 

[Steve]

I've used and have many types of screwdrivers. When I went from some cheap ones to more expensive ones I noticed immediately why they were better.
Fit, feel and functionality.

The Ferrees & Kraus are super strong torsionally. BUt the Ferree tip is brittle though very thin too but a perfect fit for small clarinet screws - thus my primary set.

The Helo is great though I notice on tight screws that torsionally it can flex quite a bit but springs back.

The cheaper ones have much lower limits

How/where do others keep their screwdrivers? I have about ten just on the table, no stand is "fast" enough. The others I use sometimes are in a glass on the table. BTW a couple of the ones that are on the table are not used as screwdrivers.

When I use them they are on the tabletop. They are only in a holder when I'm not using them. The holders are from Micro Mark.

 

[jbtsax]

This is the screwdriver holder I use on the bench. As I am working I try to set the tools used in a tray
next to my right hand. That way they don't get spread all over the bench and waste my time looking for them.

These are the screwdriver sizes spread out. I have found these sizes meet the situations confronted
so far. Note the largest size has a section of appliance hose around the handle to provide a better grip
and more torque for the larger screws that are stubborn.

This is a tool that I absolutely would not be without. The blades are supplied by Kraus with the
hex shank. It is the screwdriver of choice when disassembling an instrument. The trick is to use
it manually to see if the screw turns without forcing, and if it does use the power. If the screw
resists, then you pick up the Emanuel screwdriver of the appropriate size.

I know this thread is about screwdrivers, but I am including some pictures of a few other
organizational things that I find helpful in my workshop.

The hinge rod board.

The plier caddy.

The plastic holders for Q-tips, teflon tubing, pipe cleaners, pencils and pens

The spring board.

 

[clarnibass]

Cool to see photos from others, they gave some ideas to improve my setup a bit.

I've tried the electric screwdriver and for several reasons stopped using it. I can see why someone would like it, but I prefer just regular screwdrivers.

Those Ferree's screwdrivers in the photos are the ones I didn't like. My main issue with them was the big hex swivel head, felt really uncomfortable in my hand.

Re the Helo brand, from the photo it looks like Felo and I have a few of those. They are ok, but I prefer others. They don't seem as strong as several others type and I don't especially like the shape of the handle.

First photo shows the screwdrivers I always keep on the table, without a stand. I thought about only putting them there when working but that got annoying. Much more comfortable for me to just always have them there. It took a little bit of time (not much) but I can now almost always recognize every one of them very fast, so it's fast to pick up the right one.

Most are Wiha, a few are Wera, one is Felo and the blue one is missing the name. The top (smallest) Wera and the blue one are not used as screwdrivers, but for things where a screwdriver tip works best (sometimes removing old glue, etc.). I'm not completely sure about the smallest one and the Felo and sometimes they go to the glass stand.

Second photo shows the glass where most other screwdrivers are. I occasionally use some of those so put them on the table too, then return after finishing with them for a while.

Next photo shows the Kraus screwdrivers. I only take them out for stuck screws, or for resistant screws when the long shaft is really helpful (and other long shaft screwdrivers fail with a little effort).

Last photo, and excuse my poor diagram skills, shows the shape I like for the end of the tip. I shaped of my screwdrivers like this. It shows the blade pointing up and it is the length of the tip that is curved. This way the tip is more secure against the bottom of the slot (when possible to reach it) and a lot less likely to slip IME.

 

[Steve]

My screwdrivers actually used to go into a cup.
But I have upgraded since then ... I now use an upside down multiple cracked refurbished (so it looks nice) clarinet bell.

I'm making a new wide base for it, corked and all so I can use "replacement" bells.

 

[Chris J]

From my humble hobby bench

I use a magnetic knife rack - added bonus of it magnetising my screwdrivers!

On my bench

Chris

 

[jbtsax]

Chris, that is a nice set-up. I like the two tiered idea to make the most of your limited space. I am curious about some of your pliers. I recognize everything but the ones marked with arrows. Can you tell me what they are for and where you bought them? Also what make is the saxophone in the other photo. I don't recognize the long feet of the wire key guards. Thanks.

 

[Chris J]

Those pliers are what I use to fix the rising arm of a pad cup, to then bend the cup down or up to square it to the tone hole in the front / back plane. Can be done on or off the instrument depending on access:

I can use two on different areas to change regulation for venting issues (fixing one area with one set of pliers and using the other pliers to apply a rotational force.

The small ones are perfect for clarinet, and there are various shapes for different access.

The beaks are scooped, and I tend to leather line them, so they hold the arm well, and the scoop carries on the the tip

Chris

 

[Chris J]

Forgot to say where they are from!

They are specialist equipment, but really quite cheap. They cost about £14 GBP each.

But the speciality they are from is dentistry! They are for pulling teeth!!

Chris