Selmer Series III Baritone

Helen

Helen

Content Expert Saxophones
Staff member
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The Selmer Series III baritones are finally moving from the realm of the mythical to apparent reality, with shipping supposed to commence in October.

I've written a couple of blog posts about these mysterious instruments over the past few weeks, which quoted Dave Kessler from Kessler & Sons Music in Las Vegas. Today I had Dave Kessler do a guest column on the horn for my blog. Included are some photos of the design features, that make the Series III unique.

It sounds very intriguing, but the price tag (just under 10K) seems a bit steep. How many bari players do you know that could afford it on a musicians salary? I can't think of too many.
 
Most of the sales of such an instrument will be institutional, rather than to individuals. Ditto bass clarinets, harps, contra-bassoons, tympani and all sechlike. In most cases they are the only operations that can bear the freight of such a purpose.

While the baritone sax (like any other horn) will occasionally come to the fore as a solo instrument, its "normal" use is that of a member of an ensemble. And few individuals are capable of supporting such an operation.

Only the most devoted of players will ante up the retail price on such horns (says the guy with professional horns up and down the range in the woodwinds), and even then there will be some serious bargain hunting going on.

I bought my first baritone (a Selmer) new back when they were relatively cheap and I was flush with the ill-gotten gains of working like a dog for a number of years. I ended up selling it (and the other three saxes) when I was married, not playing any longer, and in need of a new car.

(I no longer have the wife, the car, or the horns...)

My current one was something different - I ended up settling for a used horn that was in "like new" condition. As it turned out, it wasn't a Selmer (YBS-62), but it was more than good enough.

Put another way, purchasing something as expensive as a baritone saxophone means a vacation foregone, or not being able to afford having a child, or something similar. To most, that's simply not worth the money. To a musician, maybe it is or maybe it isn't.
 
I've actually owned three baritones:

* Late 1950's Keilwerth-made Bundy. Bought for $800 around 1988.
* Brand new YBS-52. Bought for $1800 in 1989. They're now $4200.
* Early 1960's Beaugnier-made Vito. Bought for ... less than either of the above in 2008.

I sold all of the above instruments for what I paid for 'em.

$10K is "bass saxophone" range, to me. Heck, Quinn's selling a Mark VI for $5,800.

If Quinn's selling a Mark VI for $5800, you know that the S80 III is overpriced :).

Yes, I know that an SX90R is a hair under $8K and a S80 is a bit over, but I wouldn't be paying that for an S80 or SX90 -- I'd get that Mark VI over them, without hesitation. (Actually, I'd probably search for a used YBS-62, 61, 52 or 32.)

I understand that any musician wants the best tool possible, but I want to have some cash left over, too. With all the really good baris out there, a $10K horn would have to be able to play itself before I bought it.
 
I'm rather concerned about the remove of the bracing on the upper bow. The bracing for the bell to body is also concerning.

I'd have to get one in my hands to decide if the ergonomics are really improved. My opinion on that differ from most folks.
 
Ed Svoboda said:
I'm rather concerned about the remove of the bracing on the upper bow. The bracing for the bell to body is also concerning.

I'd have to get one in my hands to decide if the ergonomics are really improved. My opinion on that differ from most folks.
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The bell bracing is my main concern. The neck bracing doesnt really concern me as much. The neck bracing is a very acceptable trade off as extra weight at the neck has a great change to the response of a horn. So in this scenario, the statement of "its a pro horn, dont knock it around" is acceptable to me.

Time will tell on the bell brace. We will be getting one in and will post a follow up on it with pictures of the actual horn once we receive one.

You are definately correct that ergos on a bari are very individual. I find the Keilwerth's completely uncomfortable, but some people love them. To me, the Yanagisawa is still the champ in ergonomics on bari but the Series III is a close 2nd to me.
 
DaveKessler said:
To me, the Yanagisawa is still the champ in ergonomics on bari but the Series III is a close 2nd to me.
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I totally agree with you on the Yanagisawa comment Dave. I had never played one until a few weeks ago when I had the chance to use Jim's bari. I was amazed how easy it was to play ergo-wise. My fingers seemed to automatically find the right spots.

Having been a Mark VI player all my life, it was a no-brainer for me to make the switch. I find it much harder to make the switch from my VI to my B&S Medusa. I love the tone of my B&S, but ergo-wise, it is night & day different from the Selmer.

Now that I've played a Yanagisawa, I'd have to seriously consider one if something were to happen, & I ever had to replace my baris.

I'm really looking forward to your Series III live, first hand, report when you get one in the the store Dave. (Complete with photos.) Any word on when you are to get your first horn?
 
That Yani bari you tried out came from Dave Kessler's shop. I luv that I don't need to run a new instrument to my tech when I get them at Kessler Music. I know I go on and on about this, but it really is unusual that I get the best prices and service from the same shop. If I'm looking at a new horn, I check Kessler's first. And I send all my friends there.

Dave, heads up John Gess and Molly Pond will be looking at the Kessler Custom soprano saxes. Both know JB who bought the Kessler Custom bari from you three years ago and they know they'll get a good deal. I just wish I could buy a Kessler Custom bari for my grandson.
 
I've also had good experiences in dealing with Dave. If I were to buy a Serie III or another new horn he would be the first guy I called.
 
After playing all of the horns (mostly Selmers & the Yani bari) that Jim bought from Kessler & Sons, and having quite a bit of email contact with Dave as we worked out the details of his guest column on the Series III bari for my blog, I have to agree with you Ed.

I think most people know that I'm really more of a vintage horn player, but I do see the value of new instruments, and after playing Jim's new Selmer's, I must admit, I'm quite liking the Reference 36 Series tenors. I know that if I found myself in the market for a new horn suddenly, of any kind, I'd be calling Dave. I really like him. He seems like an honest, straight shooter, with a strong sense of customer service. These are increasingly rare traits in today's retail world. The fact that their store is a Selmer Paris Pro Shop appeals to me too.

Now if only the Series III bari wasn't 10K. ... That's about 11K before taxes & shipping in Cdn $. I'd have to sell off both of my baris, & most likely something else as well, to get one...Which is something that I'm not prepared to do.

It would be really curious to see what the sales figures are going to be in the first year, and then in the next few subsequent years. Yes, the "newness" factor will attract a certain number of buyers, but like I said before in an earlier post in this thread, I don't know too many working pros who can afford a 10K horn. Institutional sales will certainly account for some sales, but all in all given the current economic situation, I suspect all types of sales will be soft until the current crisis passes.

After so many years of delays in releasing the Series III bari, it is indeed ironic that the timing of this much anticipated horn, could not have been worse.
 
I would imagine that 99% plus of the horns produced will be sold through institutional purchases, so the impact may not be as bad as it would first appear. While fuel has hit school districts pretty hard, the lag in appraisals will ensure that they will still have enough laying around from current tax collections to handle a few.

I have always wondered about how many of the "big horns" (tubas, bass trombones, harps, double basses and 'cellos, bassoons, bass clarinets and English horns, plus baritone saxes) are owned by the schools and their ilk, as opposed to held by individuals. I know quite a few serious sax players who are in this for the money, yet only two of them own baritones. Same with bass clarinets, although there are a few more out there with Bundy horns.

Push comes to shove (he says, hawking one into the spittoon over by the pot belly stove), there is a massive price increase between those last increments in each line of instruments. The jump between all of the soprano clarinets and a bass clarinet of the same quality is huge, and the same could be said for stepping between the tenor sax and a baritone. I'm not up on my brass instruments, but I know that the actual Internet price of my bass trombone player's horn about put me into shock.

A bass player who I occasionally use (including this Saturday) was a sophomore in high school when his parent purchased his upright instrument, and they in effect bought the equivalent of a third car when they got it. Mind you, it was worth it, for he is a phenomenon on the instrument (both modern and classical), but it is still a measure of the kind of commitment that's needed to be a performer.
 
SOTSDO said:
A bass player who I occasionally use (including this Saturday) was a sophomore in high school when his parent purchased his upright instrument, and they in effect bought the equivalent of a third car when they got it. Mind you, it was worth it, for he is a phenomenon on the instrument (both modern and classical), but it is still a measure of the kind of commitment that's needed to be a performer.
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Sometimes I get a gig because I have the requisite horns and the other player doesn't. Go figure. In that case it isn't about being the best, but more about being good enough.
 
Gandalfe said:
Sometimes I get a gig because I have the requisite horns and the other player doesn't. Go figure. In that case it isn't about being the best, but more about being good enough.
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Gandalfe speaks truth, thus he is quoted.

The #1 reason I bought my own bari was because I didn't want to have to deal with idiots at my high school breaking my horn. The #1 reason I bought the YBS-52 was because I was going to college on sax and I wanted the best for the money. The YBS-52 definitely was. (Note the time period and price, mentioned above.)
 
Serious woodwind players usually have the connections to buy the instruments they want at the absolute lowest price. I know dozens of pros who can capably cover gigs on soprano to bari sax with doubles on flutes and clarinets and they all possess their own top of the line instruments.

The average string player I know has nearly as much invested in one instrument as most woodwind artists invest in the whole arsenal, and there are a lot more string players.
 
Groovekiller said:
The average string player I know has nearly as much invested in one instrument as most woodwind artists invest in the whole arsenal, and there are a lot more string players.
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Absolutely true, then again there are more orchestral gigs than band gigs. I've made far more playing violin than I ever hope to make on a woodwind instrument.
 
Another way of looking at it is that most orchestras have a lot of string players, but only a couple woodwind players (of each type: clarinet, flute, etc.) and the clarinet players generally play sax, on the rare possibility that they're gonna have to play a sax part.

Clarinet and saxophone players really have it good. The highest priced alto sax, at this very moment, is an Inderbinen at approximately $9K US. A really high-end Leblanc Backun LB110B clarinet is slightly under $6K (most expensive horn I found). Heck, I think the most expensive clarinet I've ever seen sell was a Haynes Thermocouple silver clarinet and that sold for $10K -- and there were only a couple hundred of those ever made (and weren't necessarily "the best" instrument).

A high-end Muramatsu flute is $25K. A Marigaux M2 oboe is $7.6K (so, they have it better than sax players, but they have to deal with the oboe reeds). A Heckel 41i bassoon is about $35K.
 
I agree with the "have the horn, get the job" statement; it's been a plus for me for many, many years.

I also agree with the "avoid the school horn" issue. I have taught students in the distant past, and the majority of these were bass clarinet players. With only one exception, each of these took off once the parents of same could be convinced to pony up the money for a Selmer USA bass. I probably should have gotten a spif from Selmer for my efforts...

However, I would bet hard money that the vast majority of the "high end horns" end up going to the schools and universities/colleges. Regardless of the lowest price available to some (and I've taken advantage of that as well, particularly with my bass clarinet purchase back in 1971), the big market for the likes of Conn/Selmer will be the purchase order, near retail price crowd.
 
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