Synthetic reeds question

timdhaeyer

My wife recently started experimenting with synthetic reeds (Leger French Cut) on Alto Sax. She's still searching for the correct strength, but in overall she is very happy with the result.
It made me think to try a few out myself. But I'm still a bit hesitant. I experienced early version of plasticover reeds and they sounded like rubbish to me.

Does anybody already have experience with Leger on Clarinet? Or the new Vandoren VK?
I usually play a medium 3 (Vandoren Traditional) on a D'Addario Reserve EV10E M mouthpiece. What would you recommend to get something similar?
The setting I usually play in is a standard wind band. So it ranges from classical to more modern style music. I could live with having a few reeds to match different band settings.

Lastly, maybe a stupid question. :) How long do synthetic reeds typically last? I can't really find a good reference for this.
 
I have had good luck with Legere European Cut 3.50/3.75 Bb clar reeds. I do use Van Doren V12 3.5 or 4 for orchestra playing.

The legere's last for a few months in my use. I monitor their strength using a Reed-O-Meter.

I started using legeres for practicing when covid hit and all-playing ceased....rather than using my Van Dorens.
 
Never heard of a Reed-O-Meter before. :) I actually heard somebody say that you should hold your reeds over some boiling water when they start to play a bit worse. But not sure if that trick works over and over again.

I'm tempted to tryout the Legere European Cut 3.25 and a Vandoren VK 40 (or 45). I'll talk to my shop about the return policy :)
 
Back in '80(?) I purchased a Reed-O-Meter by Maccaferri brand new from a store in NYC (Ponte Music) that specialized in woodwind instruments. It measures a reed's actual tip strength.
Here's a link to what it is:

Reed-O-Meter Reed Strength Gauge

Get the guaranteed best price on Single Reed Tools & Supplies like the Reed-O-Meter Reed Strength Gauge at Musician's Friend. Get a low price and free shipping on thousands of items.
www.musiciansfriend.com www.musiciansfriend.com

I am quite sure that they are not made anymore as Maccaferri reeds (which I used to use) disappeared by 1990.
 
Earspasm on YouTube tests all of the above so you can hear for yourself. Personally, while I use Legere for doubling, it’s still just a necessary evil for me. Cane is still better. But many of my peers play Legere exclusively and are fairly happy.

For strength, just take your best guess using their charts, and do the free exchange if it doesn’t work.

Personally, I get about 4 months from a Legere clarinet reed, but only 2 weeks from a bass sax / contrabass clarinet reed, whereas cane lasts me about 6 weeks on both, averaging about 10 hours play time per week. I still find the French cut clarinet reed kind of buzzy, and soprano, alto and tenor sax reeds unacceptable. I can tolerate Legere on bari and bass saxes, but they don’t last long enough to justify the cost. So clarinet is really the only one I use regularly.

I’ve tried the boiling water trick and found it will soften the reed about half a strength for a couple few days. Then it goes back to the way it was.

Plasticover is not a valid comparison since those are cane that can’t get wet, not synthetic. I can tell you that Bari brand synthetics are still just as terrible today as when I first tried them almost 50 years ago. Hartmann sounds like a duck call, but has a loyal following for reasons I will never comprehend.
 
I tried over a dozen different brands of synthetic reeds.

If I were a sax player in a section, many of them would be a great choice. But as a soloist, I didn't like any of them.

Why?

When I play a solo, I like to change the tone from notes to note for added expression. But the syn-reed tone was so consistent, that It just didn't sound right.

During the COVID unemployment, Mrs. Notes and I (The Sophisticats) played at least 4 times a week at home to keep our chops up. I used a syn-reed for 6 months, never putting a cane reed on. Then I put a cane reed back on, not telling Mrs. Notes, and it was an immediate WOW. She noticed it the first song and asked if I put a 'real reed' back on.

Of the syn-reeds I tried, the Fiberreed Carbon was the one I liked the most.

That was in 2000, and I haven't touched any of the syn-reeds since.

Notes ♫
 
I find the latest install of Legere reeds to be better than cane in every dimension...however, I don't play any classical...primarily Bluegrass, Klezmer, Rock 'n Roll, Big Band...
 
Benedikt Eppelsheim recommended synthetic reeds for bass sax and bass clarinet. I found them to be nice on those instruments. But I must have cane for soprano and alto sax to get the sound I'm looking for. That said, I'm not a pro, just love playing in many different kinds of bands. YMMV.
 
While synthetics work ok on my bass sax, they’re unplayable after just 3 four hour gigs. That’s way too much money to be spending on reeds. So I’m sticking with cane. Plus cane sounds much better and is easier to play in the high register.
 
I'm going to include a Legere French Cut in my next order. Just to see how it sounds and plays. If it's not 100%, I can still use it for street gigs. :)
 
I would really like to love syn-reeds. I gig for a living and on stage sing and play sax, flute, wind synth, and guitar. We do 3 or 4 outdoor gigs per week here in South Florida, and the cane reeds have ample time to dry out and then warp.

I suppose, whether you like them or not, depends on how you play. If you just want a consistent tone, if you play in a sax section and need to blend, or if you get your expression more by note choice than tone, they should be great for you.

But I grew up listening to sax players who vary their tone, sometimes note by note, sometimes in an arc during a phrase, Stanley Turrentine, Stan Getz and so on.

When I solo, I want to have vox humana, and have some notes purr and others bark, sometimes in the same solo, and I find the tone of the half dozen or so syn-reeds to have a constant tone, no matter if I try subtone, overblow or even change the shape of my oral cavity.

In conclusion, I have nothing against them, they are just not right for me.

Blessings to all the players who can get along with the syn-reeds. I wish they worked for me, too.

Notes ♫
 
I used to love Fibracell MS on my D9 on tenor. Then they moved to numbers strengths and none of them played worth a crap.

I've tried various synthetics on clarinet, and they were OK for pit work, but no good for"legit" work. There was a touring clarinet soloist who was pretty good who used carbon fiber reeds exclusively, so they do work for some people.
 
Fortunately, we have a choice.

I also use a softer reed and a wide tip opening. That seems to give me the widest range of tonal colors.

Notes ♫
 
I've tried synthetic reeds of various plastic before. Bought a few on sale during Covid. One was a brand name for my bari, forgot the name, it worked okay on outdoor play but not that great. Bought one from the orient from an Internet auction for alto of a black plastic, it was relatively inexpensive, but played and sounded terrible. Wasn't fond either of the Plasticoat cane.

For me, traditional cane works the best. I prefer a wider lay mouthpiece and thus use softer reeds.
 
After thinking about this for some time, I've come up with this answer, “It depends”. ;)

If I were playing in a sax section where I wasn't soloing, and especially if I were doubling on clarinet and flute, I'd probably prefer a syn-reed. The tone is consistent, they don't warp while sitting on the stand, and are always ready to play.

If I was the type of player who gets his/her expression by only note choices (bebop comes to mind) and didn't care about shaping individual notes, I'd be comfortable with syn-reeds.

But I am the kind of player that shapes my notes and changes the tone of my sax from note to note in a phrase (think Stanley Turrentine or Stan Getz), I have to use cane reeds.

When the Mark VII sax came out, I traded in my VI. After all, ever Selmer sax before the VII was better than the one before. I played it in the music store, the tone had more edge, which was good, as I was in a rock band with guitars at the time. The intonation was better than my VII, and it had a high F# key. Playing with guitars put me in F# and B a lot, so the convenience of an F# fingering as easy as a high F was a delight.

But I didn't fully test it in the store, because I was shy about disturbing the atmosphere. Unlike guitar stores, people don't come to the store to show off.

So I played it on the gigs, if I remember it was Wednesday through Sunday. I found out that although I liked the tone, when I would overblow the horn to get that blaaat sound, it still had that same consistent tone as middle volumes. And when I played softer and relaxed my breath support, it didn't get that weaker edgeless tone. That nice tone was too consistent, and whether I was at a whisper or a shout, the timbre was the same.

So what does this have to do with plastic reeds?

Of all the syn-reeds I've tried, I get the same feeling. The tone is too consistent, and when I change the shape of my oral cavity, the vowel sound difference is much milder than cane. This takes a lot of the vox humana out of my playing, and that is one of the main ways I get my expression.

So, for some players, the plastic reed is an advantage, for some optional, and for others, a disadvantage—it depends.

I am in the “I need a cane reed” group. I play sax, wind synth, guitar, and flute on stage, and we have plenty of outdoor gigs. That means, besides for the variations of reed-to-reed, I have to put up with warping, drying out, and all those other inconveniences of cane. The up side of that is I get my personal expression for that price.

There is more than one right way to do this.

Insights and incites by Notes ♫
 
I've been trying out the Vandoren VK1 for a few weeks now and I must say that I'm pleasantly surprised by how well it plays. I've not used it to play any solo's for now, only in a band. I'll even use it for a concert next Friday.
For now, I'll keep using it as my "go-to" reed and see if I hit any limitations. And even then, I think I'll try out another strength to see if that fixes it.
 
Notes_Norton said:
But I am the kind of player that shapes my notes and changes the tone of my sax from note to note in a phrase (think Stanley Turrentine or Stan Getz), I have to use cane reeds.
Click to expand...
That's my reason for wanting cane, I can be more expressive. When I was practicing 4 hours a day, I was going through boxes of reeds regularly. That's when I was extremely happy to find NOS (new but old stock) reeds for less than half the price of new reeds. I'd buy reeds in boxes of 25, although didn't pass up boxes of 10 also.

Notes_Norton said:
When the Mark VII sax came out, I traded in my VI. After all, ever Selmer sax before the VII was better than the one before. I played it in the music store, the tone had more edge, which was good, as I was in a rock band with guitars at the time. The intonation was better than my VII, and it had a high F# key. Playing with guitars put me in F# and B a lot, so the convenience of an F# fingering as easy as a high F was a delight.
Click to expand...
I used to think that way, until I acquired a Beaugnier Vito low Bb bari sax of the early 1950's. It was the first sax I had that could play falsetto notes super easy. Others, required alternate fingerings and just the right tempered reed, which affected my playing. The beaugnier doesn't have a high F#, but I was able to falsetto finger it, which was easier and more natural to me, without having to move my hand and finger to hit it, which to me is more awkward and slows me down a touch in passages.

I'm not a falsetto player. Some like to go through the entire range of falsetto. I only go a couple notes starting, but on the bari, its nice because it extends the range for better solo playing. Beats having to drop an octave lower.

Notes_Norton said:
Of all the syn-reeds I've tried, I get the same feeling. The tone is too consistent, and when I change the shape of my oral cavity, the vowel sound difference is much milder than cane. This takes a lot of the vox humana out of my playing, and that is one of the main ways I get my expression.
Click to expand...
For a time a decade to 6 years ago, I was bell ringing for the Salvation Army during Christmas, to help them raise money to fund their social services to the poor. I'd be outdoors, playing 4 hours a time for 20 hours a week for a whole month.

I was crazy, would play for two hours straight, one song after another with hardly a break. Then take a 10 minute break and be back at it again. I did all the public domain traditional Christmas songs A capella. Actually it was kind of fun. I'd change keys, play in the more difficult keys, modulate up a half step next verse, etc. The one name brand synth reed seemed to be okay for this type music.

(I'd have people come up to me, saying they heard me at a distance, thought it was a recording until they saw and heard me. The officers found that when I was manning a store door front, all of a sudden, the donations in the kettle increased 4 fold. Plus, I'd tell other bell ringers, advantage to playing the sax was I didn't have to smile at people and greet them. ;) )

Notes_Norton said:
I am in the “I need a cane reed” group. I play sax, wind synth, guitar, and flute on stage, and we have plenty of outdoor gigs. That means, besides for the variations of reed-to-reed, I have to put up with warping, drying out, and all those other inconveniences of cane. The up side of that is I get my personal expression for that price.
Click to expand...
Exactly, that is my reason too, for wanting traditional cane and not plasticoats or synthetics.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom