The Conn experience

[SOTSDO]

It should be a iron-clad rule that each and every person who gets past high school band while still playing a sax should be flown off to some secret location in South Dakota and be forced to play a quality Conn sax from the golden days of their production.

Much like Buffet clarinets, the current run of saxophones (from whatever manufacturer you might choose) are competent instruments when well set up and maintained. But, there's a whole different world out that the good Colonel once produced, and his horns are as different from the French-styled ones that obtain these days as is twilight from high noon.

Alas, Colonel Conn' organization is no longer, and all we have left to sample is a dwindling number of horns made oh so many years ago, a number that decreases with each passing year. Pity, for the Conn sound is truly a wonder to behold the first time you pick one up.

So, the next time you're jonesing for a new saxophone experience, consider picking up a cheap Conn alto from the 1900-1930 period on eBay, get it repadded and functionally restored, and then find out what you've been missing (including that left hand cluster of table keys from Hell)...

 

[pete]

Oh, I've waxed prosaic about my experiences with New Wonders, including one fully restored tenor I owned.

I don't like them.

However, I've also played the 30M that may still belong to Paul Lindemeyer -- before he bought it. That was one of the few horns I played that I seriously felt that I was not worthy of playing. Yes, it's an impractical horn for me, a guy that played mainly classical, and the keywork isn't as nice as a modern horn (IMO), but it had a truly beautiful tone and was pretty easy to play.

So, I somewhat disagree: if you need an introduction to vintage Conns, try the very top-of-the line Connqueror or Connstellation or even a "Naked Lady" Standard model, rather than a Wonder or New Wonder.

(Also remember, if you're new to the world of vintage horns, that all Conns, up until about WWII, were available as HIGH PITCH -- labeled with an "H" above the serial number -- and they will not play in tune with modern instruments, no matter what you do. And someone sent me the page from the Conn catalog that even confirms that, so there. )

Unless you have GAS. Then buy one of everything .

 

[Ed]

Chu's sound nice. They hurt my hands to play. I'd love to play the conversion that Palo did.

 

[SuperAction80]

My New Wonder has some of the best intonation I've ever experienced with an alto. The low B is a little dodgy, but I can keep it under control by using tenor reeds. The rest of the scale is very even. It's the loudest alto I've ever played, but is also quite capable of playing nice subtones. I took to the ergos almost instantly. The stack keys offer a very straight ahead design, and it feels very natural to me. The table keys are lightning fast once you get used to them. I miss the articulated G# mechanism, but the layout of the table allows you to get from low C# to G# rather quickly.

I can see why these horns would not be for everyone, but for me my Conn is worth its weight in gold.

 

[Toby]

here here...

My 1938 6M viii (low pitch, thank god) has been in my possession for over 30 years. I have another alto but it never comes out as long as this Naked Lady functions. I use an old NY STM 5* and the tone can run from Desmond smooth to a laser sharpened Sanbornesque.

I don't know what I would do without this horn.

 

[rleitch]

I've also played the 30M that may still belong to Paul Lindemeyer -- before he bought it. That was one of the few horns I played that I seriously felt that I was not worthy of playing.

I had more-or-less this exact experience with a silver plated Connqueror alto that I got for a ridiculously low price a year or so ago: I simply couldn't keep it knowing what a real jazz alto player would do with it. I took it out to play at the bar and, when I asked a local sax guy what he thought of my new sax, he said: "sounds like you."

He was right, and, in fact, the experience was so revealing vis-a-vis my alto playing that I ended-up selling my Selmer alto as well...to ED! How's that for a Conn experience?

I would love to have a chance to play a 30M (or Chu or 10M) someday...even though I know i'd still sound like me .

Rory

 

[Ed]

Love that horn by the way. It's a lot brighter than my VI but I made up a mouthpiece that is a little darker than my main piece on the VI. It works great on the SA80.

My son will end up with it when he's old enough.

 

[SOTSDO]

The increased volume and "fullness" of the tone was the first thing that I noticed about the Conn experience, and that makes up for the key arrangement in spades. The projection over a "French" style horn is immediately apparent, and it can make a difference if you are not "man" enough to deal with it.

But, what fascinates me the most about them is just how inexpensive they can be. You can take a "junk" Conn horn from eBay, one you pick up for a song, give it a partial rebuild and then be in business with a sax worth many, many times the investment. Even a horn with missing parts can easily be refitted, since they are so common in "junk" form.

(Most folks turn their nose up at them, and to be fair, they do feel weird the first time. But, most folks are scared to death to try something different in the first place, much less something as "off the charts" as is an American saxophone from the 1920's.)

It's something to do with the shape of the bore, as far as I can tell, and (to me, at least) the descending portion of the bore of a Conn is an odd, flattened on one side cone, quite different from what I remember of my Selmers back in the day.

Oddly enough, I have yet to try a baritone that measures up to the altos and tenors that I have played and own. I've looked long and hard for Conn baritones from the 1920', but to date have only been exposed to three of them. One was a wreck, actually having been spray painted at some point in its long life, but the other two were both set up right and in playing condition. Neither had the same "oomph" as did the altos and tenors. The lack of a low Bb also bothered me a bit, but not as bad as the stuffy feeling tone.

 

[pete]

I hope you mean "low A" or that was a REALLY old horn you played .

The Conn low A baritones (11M) are really 12Ms that have a non-conical extension on the bell. It works, but I remember reading a lot of articles about how removing the key will reduce stuffiness. YMMV.

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A list of things to look at on a Conn would be (in order):
* Serial. If it's says "H", it's high pitch. Don't buy it.
* Tone holes. If it's an older Conn, they're rolled. And if the horn's been damaged, sometimes toneholes are filed down. That's bad.
* Lacquer. If it's before 1935-ish, it shouldn't be. If it's before 1950-ish, it shouldn't be lacquer with nickel keywork. I've seen even 1920s horns refinished like this. If I had to but a 1920's Conn, I'd get a plated horn -- preferably gold.

However, as I said, above, I really don't like most Conns, in general, and specifically the New Wonders. I really think that some of them are very, very pretty, but I would have a very hard time liking one, let alone recommending one (excepting the 30M). If someone has a really cherry condition New Wonder bari that they want to send me to try to change my mind, go for it.

============

There are three very good Conn alternatives, if you want something pre-WWII: Keilwerth, Kohlert and some other German manufacturers (like Huller and Adler). You've got your microtuner. You've got your rolled tone holes. Hey, they even look like Conns and both Keilwerth and Kohlert had horns with the elaborate additional pearls and great engraving.

 

[SuperAction80]

There are three very good Conn alternatives, if you want something pre-WWII: Keilwerth, Kohlert and some other German manufacturers (like Huller and Adler). You've got your microtuner. You've got your rolled tone holes. Hey, they even look like Conns and both Keilwerth and Kohlert had horns with the elaborate additional pearls and great engraving.

What really took me for a loop with the old Kohlert's is that some of them did have a Mercedes style keyguard. One popped up in the Conn section on the other forum about a month ago. The owner thought that it was a pre-NW Conn of some kind. The horn did share some features with a Conn, but then again there were other features that would not have matched up with anything Conn ever made. Up until this point, I never knew that anybody other than Conn made a Mercedes style low C-keyguard...or microtuner for that matter. Pete, I have no doubt in your assessment that the vintage German manufacturers play better than Conn's of the same vintage, but the horns must be fairly difficult to find. I've never come across anything that looked like a Conn that wasn't a Conn until last month, and I frequent eBay a lot. I'm hoping to come across one now. Your comment has sparked my curiousity. :idea:

On the other hand, Pete, love the Conn's. Join the dark side.

 

[pete]

Your comment has sparked my curiousity. :idea:

You've just gotta love the way some of the Kohlerts look. Look at the VKS horns. A slightly different version was stenciled for Selmer as the original "Pennsylvania" model.

And I mentioned the "Mercedes-Benz" keyguard when I posted my Kohlert pages a long while ago: http://www.saxpics.com/kohlert/vks_models.htm. I've seen a couple of, "What the heck is THAT?" horns with the same keyguard, too.

A small selection of Adler.

One of my favorite early Keilwerths, courtesy of http://www.worldwidesax.com.

On the other hand, Pete, love the Conn's. Join the dark side.

I've just played way too many bad Conns. As I said, I had a FULLY OVERHAULED (and by a very competent tech) New Wonder tenor and it sucked. I had several other New Wonder stencils and they sucked. I played a NW bari and bass and they sucked. And, considering I could play other horns from other manufacturers without problem, I knew it wasn't me or my mouthpiece choices.

As I said, I'm with you on the 30M. Connstellation? Why not. New Wonder? I can't recommend that. And I also think that if you want to convince someone of the superiority of the brand, you may as well recommend the *best* models they produced, first. Hey, while the Connquerors and Connstellations are getting up there in price, they're still fairly reasonably priced, in comparison to a new horn.