What do the repair techs think of this?

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
http://www.wichitaband.com/used.html#clarinet said:
The instrument is taken apart and everything washed clean. We don't believe in chemical dips, but do use plenty of soap and water! All wood parts are inspected for checks and damage, polished and then soaked in oil for three days.
I was under the following impressions:

* Soap + wood = bad thing. I know it dries out my tables ....
* Soaking in oil = bad thing (see http://clarinetperfection.com/questionscl.htm#PRSmelly).

However, I'm not a repair guy. What thinkest thou?
 
The way it was explained to me is that the grenadilla wood is dense enough that a temporary wash in warm soapy water to clean the surface of the wood does no harm. However after the wash it should be thoroughly dried and given a coat of bore oil inside and out. Some of the guru's like Larry Naylor use special oils and immerse the body in heated oil for days at a time on badly dried out clarinets and oboes to supposedly rejuvinate them and bring back their original dimensions. The rest of us just put on a light coat of oil and let it sit over night.

If your table were made out of dense African hardwood, it would weigh a ton, cost thousands of dollars, and be safe from soap and water too.

John
 
Gary Ray is one of the main guys at Wichita Band. He has been in the music industry for a very, very long time. I also believe he has a 2 year warranty on about anything that they do.

One thing I would like to eloborate. Many times in written form techs will write someone out in a short, generalized fashion. I do this all the time myself. As John mentioned Mr. Naylor uses a special process .. but he doesnt outline that process step by step in his website.

Oiling a wood body is fine.
Soaking it, under knowledgeable supervision is also fine.

I've had to overhaul previously overhauled clarinets due to bodies being soaked without knowledgeable supervision. Primary reason being too much oil in the wood or under metal parts that weren't properly cleaned of excess oil.

My oil process varies dependent upon the condition of the wood AND type of wood - from a surface rub to a oil soak.

Various types of wood soak up oil at different rates. In barrel making I found this out FAST as the wood I get is already dried but not heat/pressure oil treated.

For example, I soaked a rosewood barrel and found out the absorption rate was way too fast and part of it became soggy - yes, like it would look rotted. this then required me to put it in a heat chamber to leech out the excess oil. I then cut it down a bit to get rid of that particular section. I start out with 72mm cuts anyways.

But, also the preparation and surface (inside and out) of the wood is also impoirtant when dealing with dried wood.

African Blackwood is very dense, extremely dense as John mentioned. I treat African Blackwood completely differently than Rosewood, which is different from Ebony and Mopani.

Matter of fact don't generalize African Blackwood either. I've had two pieces of 2 x2 x 8 in my hands and one weighed a good 1 lb heavier than the other piece.

You may recall I did a barrel for Gandalfe in Applewood for his boxwood clarinet. This wood soaked up oil and Expanded quite librerally. So much so that the barrel socket expanded and thus no longer fit on the clarinet - I'm talking that it wasn't even close. This was dried, raw wood from 2x2x8 blocks. But as the oil absorbs more deeply into the wood from the surface it balances out and "readjusts". but this takes time.

The clarinet that you and I buy already has been heat/pressure treated at the factory. Various manufacturers use various types of woods. They even mix upper joint and lower joint woods.

Bodies over time and how they are stored, and played generally will dry out here and there due to weather, and water penetration. From playing, the first places for this would be the barrel sockets.

I've had some severally dried out clarinets and especially barrels pass through my hands. Most people would probably just throw them out thinking they were dead. A good oil treatment can bring back the life and dimensions of that wood .. ie, such as Mr. Naylor elaborates on.

Back to Mr.Ray. I use chemical dips on saxophone bodies, not on clarinets (if i were to guess he probably does the same). I certainly wouldn't use it on a clarinet. I also don't use soap and water - I could, but I have another process for all of that even before I get to the body oiling process. But using soap and water, as John mentions, it needs to be dried out fairly quickly. And one needs to do a quality check for the rings and posts .. though theoretically the screwed in ones are very tight but the post inserted ones may allow water to seep into the post root.

Wichita band has a fairly extensive process/shop there. I believe they also replate keywork in house. I suspect his process is much more extensive than what he has written while also undergoing certain quality checks along the way. It's their secrete process !!

I have a process from top to bottom of a clarinet. Though, I don't have that process listed on my website. Some things took me years to evolve too which I'm not about to give up for free to have other people scrutinize that only have tried something once and found it not suittable to their tastes even though they simply don't have the appropriate equipment or knowledge. (my only rant)

I can ask Mr Ray to eloborate if you wish. He has gone through my website in certain areas and given me corrected information on some historical information. He also has a ton of very interesting stories of years past of big names in the industry. I'm sure, there's more to their process than what is written.

by the way, wood eating utensils, bowls etc in their process are normally given an oil soak (various makers use various types and mixtures) to stabilize the wood and prevent water absorption (such as from uncooked chicken sitting on them) to prevent backteria. They also may use various other edible coatings on it such as various waxes to give them a nice shiny look. Some tables have a surace coating only, and once that wears out the raw wood can be a problem with absorption ... just take a look at an old, cheap cutting boards. also .. don't put your untreated table in a sunny part of the house, it can dry it out.
 
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I was under the following impressions:

* Soap + wood = bad thing. I know it dries out my tables ....
* Soaking in oil = bad thing (see http://clarinetperfection.com/questionscl.htm#PRSmelly).

However, I'm not a repair guy. What thinkest thou?

by the way, that page listed is years old and generalized ... a new version is on the way sooner or later. that page is generally directed towards the completely unknowledgeable consumer especially during a time when i was getting customer clarinets sent to me that were bought from eBay that were in a process that were soaked in oil for 3 days ..... icky. I assumed dropped in a bucket of oil for 3 days and pulled out later. hand wiped, put together and shipped out to a customer after sitting on a shelf where the humidity is kinda high. olive oil too i beleive.


btw .. what kind of soap ?? there are actually good soaps out there specifically for wood ... ahhh .. but that is not eloborated .. even the soap to water mixture isn't elaborated, nor the quantity, nor how it is applied for how long, etc !!
 
I was under the following impressions:

* Soap + wood = bad thing. I know it dries out my tables ....
* Soaking in oil = bad thing (see http://clarinetperfection.com/questionscl.htm#PRSmelly).

However, I'm not a repair guy. What thinkest thou?

I always clean overhaul candidates with a toothbrush, mild liquid handsoap and lukewarm water. I dry it carefully, let sit for an hour or two, then oil the body inside and out.
I haven't witnessed any ill effects.
 
I apply bore oil to a toothbrush and agitate the dirt on the outside and inside of each joint, and then do the same on toneholes with various sized tiny "bottle brushes." Then I wipe, wipe. and blow away dirt with compressed air. In extreme cases there are cleaning products (Doctor's products) that may help, but mostly it's just oil and brushes, Q-tips, pipe cleaners, etc. I try not to disturb the wood too much.
 
I was under the following impressions:

* Soap + wood = bad thing. I know it dries out my tables ....
* Soaking in oil = bad thing (see http://clarinetperfection.com/questionscl.htm#PRSmelly).

However, I'm not a repair guy. What thinkest thou?
No problem to wash wood clarinets with soap and water. After the wood might look dry. That's probably because washing it removed some of the oil from the outer layer. Then a light coat of oil for a while should bring the dark colour back. One other thing I sometimes use to restore the dark smooth colour is pure caranbua wax, I use a brush with the wax in my micromotor on the body.

As far as soaking, I guess it can be ok. I don't do this though and I haven't yet seen any convincing evidence showing an advantage over a coat of oil. For example:

Imagine you are in the middle of a pool completely surrounded by water. Then imagine you are inside a shaped box that matches your body exactly, with let's say 1cm around you. This box is full of water. The box and the pool would be exactly the same for you, you will be completely covered with water all around you. The same principal can apply to oil. I don't see the advantage of a thick layer of oil around the clarinet (soaking) over a thin layer. Soaking might be faster if there is somehow more pressure from the oil but is that really a significant advantage?
 
The few horns that I have disassembled and cleaned (prior to having an overhaul done by someone with the pads and the skill to install them) were all stripped clean of parts and posts (where possible), washed clean using soap, water (and followup detail cleaning with "lighter fluid" (VM&P naphtha) and a toothbrush) before re-oiling the wood to the point of refusal (i.e., where a drop of oil left on the surface of the body would not be absorbed overnight).

I've done this to perhaps seven clarinets of various vintage in the last forty years. Not a crack in the four that I have retained, and no complaints from those who now own the other two or three.

Come to think of it, I've never had a cracked joint in any of the clarinets that I own, ranging from horns made in the 1890's on up to the present. Just lucky, I guess...
 
Come to think of it, I've never had a cracked joint in any of the clarinets that I own, ranging from horns made in the 1890's on up to the present. Just lucky, I guess...
I don't think it is luck. You happen to live in a humid climate. Move to Arizona and don't oil your clarinets and see what happens. Utah is almost as bad.

John
 
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