What's the relationship between Keilwerth and B & S?


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I have heard from some sources that B & S and Keilwerth saxes are made in the same plant in the same location and are very similar. Other sources indicate they are two different makes. Do they still make saxes under the B & S name?

if i can remember correctly B&S stopped production (their own plant) several years ago. The taiwain/chinese horns cost-wise somewhat put them out of business. At the end they outsourced their production to taiwan/china - and since they may have disappeared - 2005 ?.

Before that happened they were able to sell their horns under stencil names msot notably being the US retail segment. I recall seeing their saxes at a local store with some US Education brand name Allora and inquired. They told me they were B&S horns (had all the keywork the see-saw G#/F mechanism, etc - thus the reason I asked about it). Also, if i recall a Guardala, LA SAx jazz, Medusa and probably other names.

Relationship to Keilwerth. I'm sure there any but there could be some because after WWII they all kinda used the same design (Pete will probably know more) .....
btw, the horns were really nice horns for the money especially at the end when they were discounting them at the same price as their new ones from Taiwan/China.

The few i've had go through my hands were really nicely built instruments with smooth and fast keywork and a really nice tone.
The only B&S/Keilwerth relationship is that their baris were designed and built by Richard (not Julius) Keilwerth. Easily as far back as the Weltklang days.
jbtsax, the only possible connection between the 2 brands could be, and I stress could be, that when B&S ceased its production of pro horns in Germany, they were planning on continuing to make some kind of pro model horn in Asia. Since JK has their student horns come from where Taiwan(?), it is I suppose possible that B&S's student model horns & any pro models that they might now be making, could be coming from the same factory.

This is pure speculation on my part, but if there is a connection between the 2 companies, it would have to of course be a new one, and that would be the only one plausible explanation I could come up with off the top of my head.
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