What's Wrong with this Bass?

pete

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
No. It's not a trick question. It's an eBay ad:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vox-bass-sax-made-by-Beaugnier-in-France-BASS-SAXOPHONE/151932887187. Vox made by Beaugnier.

1. It's in really nice-looking shape.
2. It's pretty darn inexpensive for a bass, $6,900; a new Selmer's $22K. Hey, it's even beat the inflation rate. It was $1600 new. The inflation calculator says that's $10,900 in today's money.
3. It's not being sold by a guy with 0 feedback.

It's been on eBay for about a month. It's not like nobody's buying basses. Someone bought the one WBI was selling for $11K a couple weeks ago.
 
1. Timing? There is a very finite universe of potential Bass buyers. Perhaps the pool is small (or drained) at this time, and no one or very few are seeking a Bass Sax at this time.

2. An off beat Brand (not a Conn gold Plated) I have owned Beaugniers, and still own a Beaugnier (Vito) Alto, they are wonderful instruments, but it still is Brand X.

I like the case. I had a coffin case that felt like it had a body still in it when I purchased my Keilwerth Bass. I bought a lighter case with wheels (see related article on Bassic Sax) and sold the coffin.:cool:

I Remain,

Glenn G


"New Woodwind Forum Member after 6 years"
 
If I owned one, I might find an actual coffin for it :).

I get what you're saying, Glenn, but I've seen threads here and elsewhere where people have cash in hand and are either waiting for a very specific make/model or pitch and will pull the trigger when the perfect deal comes by. I think this would probably be it, if you were at all interested in getting a bass sax.
 
First, let me say that I know nothing about this brand of bass saxophone. The only Pre-1970 French bass sax I ever played was a late 1950s Selmer. I repaired it, removed all leaks and the horn was in very good condition - no dents, no major damage in the past, and no mechanical problems. It was horrible, probably the worst bass sax I have ever played. low B was almost unplayable with any mouthpiece.
I once commented to Benedikt Eppelsheim that I thought the early Selmer was the worst bass sax I had ever seen, and he replied that he thought another French bass was worse. Is this the one? I don't know.
By the way, the new Selmer bass saxes look like the older ones, plus the addition of high E, Eb, and F (F#?) keys, but they play great. They don't have the depth of an old Conn, Buescher, or Eppelsheim, but intonation is terrific, and they play very easily, even with a baritone mouthpiece. I wouldn't trade my Eppelsheim, though, and prices are similar.
 
I have been giving this some thought, and am planning on writing about this today on my website. Like most of you here, I haven't play a Beaugnier bass, but a number of the regulars on my site own them. They really like them. Perhaps it's a familiarity thing: You get used to the horn you play--and with bass saxes it's likely you've not played a wide enough variety of them to make a truly informed decision about what's good and what's not. But that's just a guess.

As far as the gold plated Conn the WBI sold for just south of 12K, that I find odd. In today's economy I find it shocking that anybody would spend that much money on a non-essential instrument. Conn or not. Gold plated or not. Oh, it's worth mentioning too that this horn has been on eBay for over 1/2 a year. I first noticed it in July 2015.

I know that bass saxophones have generally held there value over the recent economic crisis. They and Selmers seem to be the instruments that appear to have weathered the turbulent economic storm the best. However, I have been keeping an eye on Conn bass sales, and can't remember seeing anything selling close to this. True, this was a dealer sale. But I've seen a number of lovely bass saxes that Quinn has sit for quite a while before finally selling at discounted prices: prices lower than I thought they would.

I'm wondering if this Conn wasn't a one-off, and just happened to find that one buyer (fill in with adjective of your choice ;) ) enough to spend that much money. There's no reason to think that an identical Conn would fetch the same $, since that buyer has got his bass.

For example, Colin Stetson uses vintage Conn basses. If he were looking for another one, he'd at least have the actual need for a bass sax, and be able to write the cost off on his taxes. That said, there aren't many players like Stetson around, so targeting players like him would be like trying to hit a 747 at cruising altitude with a BB gun. ;)

In any event, I'm not surprised the Vox hasn't sold. The Beaugnier basses that I have seen through dealers like Saxquest and Quinn, tend to hang around longer than the vintage American ones, and sell for somewhat less.

FWIW, those are my thoughts, now I need to come up with some new ones for the article on my website... Or not... ;)
 
PM Woodwinds currently has four basses listed. I'm not sure about the silver Buescher that's out on trial, but I'm pretty sure the other three (particularly the York) have been there for quite a while.
 
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Gandalfe said:
33 are watching the Conn/Holton bass sax offering.
Click to expand...
It strikes me that the Conn/Holton is kinda a, "I wonder if someone's actually going to buy it," type of curiosity. It needs an awful lot of work, not including removing the painted finish. Some of the keywork doesn't look original to me, lotsa bent keywork, dings, and dents. Some of the toneholes look a little odd in the pics, like they might not exactly be round,and the neck receiver/bottom of the crook has had some major damage with a not very clean looking repair.
 
I did end up writing about the Vox yesterday, and I received an interesting reply. The reply was from a fellow who happens to own the Beaugnier bass that PM Woodwinds still has on his site. (Apparently Paul isn't so fast on updating his website.)

The reasons JC bought the Beaugnier are actually very interesting, and yes, he did compare it to a Buescher. He chose the short wrap horn specifically because of its features (high F, bis Bb), and ease of handling. Intonation quirks were fixed with some crescents. He doesn't notice a difference in power or sound compared to the American style bass. Where he does notice a difference is in the altissimo.

He isn't able to play any altissimo yet on the Beaugnier, whereas he was able to on the Buescher immediately. That said, he's still working on finding a good MP for it, so that might solve the problem I think.

In any event, check out my article and offer up any input you may have.
 
pete said:
I get what you're saying, Glenn, but I've seen threads here and elsewhere where people have cash in hand and are either waiting for a very specific make/model or pitch and will pull the trigger when the perfect deal comes by. I think this would probably be it, if you were at all interested in getting a bass sax.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's what my #2 says it's an off brand, perhaps the prospective buyers do not wish to take a chance on it.

I'm always confused this time of year, it is a good time to sell expensive items, because income tax refunds are being received, or is it a bad time because income taxes are being paid and credit card bills are due?

Glenn G
 
As far as income tax refunds are concerned, I've always tried to take a portion of my wife and my refund and spend it on trips. We live in AZ. My sister lives in TX, my wife's brother is in MI. My mom lives in NY. Last year, I tried to get out and visit Jim (Gandalf) and Helen. "Tried" being the operative term. The refund actually went to hospital bills ...

I really don't know what our refund will be this year, but I've got a few floors and carpets that need to be replaced and my wife has requested a dishwasher that's not our 12 year old daughter. In other words, if we get a decent refund, it's already pre-spent :).

FWIW, PayPal did a promotion (maybe still) that you can buy something on eBay over $100 and have 6 months zero interest. I took advantage of that for a nice laptop to replace a laptop and an iPad -- and I use it at work, so even more goodness!
 
pete said:
No. It's not a trick question. It's an eBay ad:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vox-bass-sax-made-by-Beaugnier-in-France-BASS-SAXOPHONE/151932887187. Vox made by Beaugnier.

1. It's in really nice-looking shape.
2. It's pretty darn inexpensive for a bass, $6,900; a new Selmer's $22K. Hey, it's even beat the inflation rate. It was $1600 new. The inflation calculator says that's $10,900 in today's money.
Click to expand...

Hi Pete, is the date of 1968 from the inflation calculator based on something in particular, or just conjecture? I am trying to date my Noblet (yes I'm that guy referred to above).
 
Sorry for the delay. I need to check the mod queue more often.

I'm not exactly dating the bass in the eBay ad. One of the two links in my first post is to a thread about a 1968 Vox price list, which lists the bass' price on page 4. I do know that Vox-branded horns weren't around for very long. Late 60s.

Leblanc, which owned Noblet and Beaugnier, has two reactions to serial number requests: they're very helpful or they'll deny the request outright. This thread might help you a bit, though.
 
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