Windows 8

pete

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
I've actually used 8 since the original public "beta." I still have the last "beta" that came out before the production version (the "release to manufacturing" or "RTM" version) running on a couple of laptops.

First, I was relatively impressed that I really didn't see that much that was crashtastic on either of the "betas": I spotted only a couple of things that were buggy, the biggest of which was that every now and then you couldn't select a bunch of files off a server and copy them elsewhere; you could only copy one file at a time. I can't even remember the other thing I reported. Some sort of display issue that never cropped up again.

However, I wondered what the entire point of Windows 8 was, from a desktop standpoint. Laptops or tablets? Easy to understand: if you have multitouch, Windows 8 is sorta designed around it. It's not quite as seamless as using a Mac under 10.8 ("Mountain Lion"), but it's a lot better than Windows 7. However, unless you're one of the insanely few folks that happen to have either a multi-touch-screen monitor or have a multi-touch input pad (I'm in the latter group), there's no real reason for Windows 8. It's only slightly faster than 7 and you've got to contend with that "we're no longer calling it 'Metro,' but it's Metro" interface which does away with things like the Start menu.

Today, I found a good reason to use Windows 8: if you've got more than two monitors, it's really kewl. Primarily because Microsoft has realized that around 16% of folks do use multiple displays. I have three and an app that allows me to us my iPad as a fourth. Unfortunately, Windows 7 and earlier only allows you to have the "Start" taskbar on ONE display. Multiple displays? Shell out some bucks to buy a 3rd party application. Windows 8 not only allows you to use a taskbar on multiple displays, it gives you a few different ways of doing it.

Also, mainly for techies, there's a command to put "your" Windows installation on a USB stick. I haven't had a chance to play with this feature, yet.

So, I cautiously recommend Windows 8 on the desktop just because of those features, especially if you've got a new-ish PC (bought between June 2, 2012 and, for time travelers, January 31, 2013) and can get the $15 upgrade. It's $40 to get the upgrade package from another version of Windows, which may or may not be a good deal: most multiple-monitor software retails around the $20 range, which can add more functionality to your Windows experience. I also think the other features are subject to the 80/20 rule: 80% of folks will use only 20% of Windows 8's new features.

There is a free 90-day trial* of Windows 8 available. Note that a) it's not an upgrade: you'll be installing a brand new copy of Windows and b) once the trial expires, you can't buy a key to upgrade to "retail": you have to reformat your hard drive.

I'm probably going to install Windows 8 on my desktop at work in a few days. I'll probably do my "main" home PC as soon as a new version of my iPad/screen software comes out.

* It's been tested for a theoretical 270 days, if you use the slmgr -rearm command at the end of 90 days -- I tested that as soon as the trial came out, actually -- but there could be other considerations, so YMMV.
 
So, today I had some free time and decided to install Win 8 64-bit on my home computer. Fresh, "bare metal" install.

I have 48ish applications installed and, yes, I use them all. I also have a fairly new motherboard in my computer (my computer is home-built, of course), so one would assume that the former thing would be more of a hurdle than the latter. I was wrong about that assumption.

Total time: 6 hours. Including final full backup of old system (Windows 7 64-bit).

Notes:
* Sandboxie, a sandbox program (that's a program that creates a "virtual environment" where you can run other programs without having them affect anything on your computer) is incompatible. This is due to some new stuff in Windows 8, so that means that I have to wait for a solution or use a work-around.

* My Bamboo Tablet is currently "incompatible" with Windows 8: it throws up a billion errors in Event Viewer. The tablet, a Pen & Touch, is only about a year old. Windows 8 drivers are being tested, but they don't seem to be publicly available, yet.

* I have an ASROCK Z68 Extreme3 Gen3 motherboard. ASROCK is occasionally a bit ... dense. They have some Windows 8 drivers available, but they happen to be listed under other motherboards. It was fun and interesting (not) to determine which ones would kill my computer.

Now, on that last point, I try very hard to make sure that there are a) no conflicts in Device Manager and b) no Errors or Warnings in Event Viewer. I've actually been complimented by other techs because I can build a system like that. Hey, I just research the errors and implement their fixes.

Not for Windows 8, though.

I was able to make sure that all my Device Manager conflicts were sorted out. One of the more difficult was to get the dreaded "Unknown Device" to be recognized (in this case it was Intel SmartConnect). But not for Event Viewer. Here's what I've got:

In the Application Log:
ERROR. ISCT Agent. Event 1000. netDetect::AOACNetDetect::Initialize Net Detect: Error Loading PROSet Library Error=0x2\n.

It's either a sign of how long I've been doing this or it's creeping insanity, because I have a good idea of what this error is for: I need a new Intel ProSet driver and/or a new Intel SmartConnecT driver. Neither exist, of course, and, based on the fact that all Googling for even part of this error gets you posts from this month, it's pretty obvious that it's Windows 8-related.

In the System log:
ERROR. Event 6. An I/O operation initiated by the Registry failed unrecoverably.The Registry could not flush hive (file): ''.

I've done some research on this and it's gotten down to a few things:

* It's a server memory leak. Of course, I'm not running Windows Server, but there's an awful lot of Windows Server-related stuff in Windows 7 and 8.

Oh. A quick definition of "memory leak" is that an application steals some memory from the system to do something. It's supposed to give back the memory when the something is done, but it doesn't. Then you do the same something again and a bit more memory is stolen. Lather, rinse, repeat often enough and your computer will crash.

* It's a problem with accessing USB or Firewire (ieee 1394) device. That'd be great, but unless it's a problem with my rather standard keyboard and Microsoft trackball, this is not the problem you are looking for. Move along.

* It's a problem with Google Chrome. Seriously. I haven't investigated this fully, but I've seen about a half-dozen posts that mention this.

* There is no problem. You do not see a problem. Move along. This was the comment on Microsoft's forum. Combining this with 1 & 2, above, I think that there's probably a Microsoft-related problem of some sort that will be fixed by a file/driver update in the very near future. Or by Windows 8 SP1.

I've also got a WARNING in the System log:
Event 219. The driver \Driver\VMSMP failed to load for the device ROOT\VMS_MP\0000.

All Googling says that this is a problem with Hyper-V (which is in Windows 8, even for desktops) and my network adapter. As I'm obviously posting, my network card is obviously working. I also don't have Hyper-V turned on ... but I installed VirtualBox, which does some of the same things as Hyper-V. My conclusion is that there'll be either a driver update for my network card (Realtek), a Microsoft Update for Hyper-V and/or my network card or an update to VirtualBox.
 
I'm so glad I'm still on XP, even f my wife and kids have Win 7. Win 8 will have to wait a long time to get a foothold in my house. Hell, we haven't gone to Win 7 at work yet... Thank goodness.
 
For those afraid of upgrading orgies - ever since I sidegraded my "core" applications to PortableApps, moving to a different operating system (or upgrading computers) is now a question of 15 Minutes. Just copy all "my documents" plus the PortableApps root folder over to the new machine. That's it.
For the really nasty (read: business critical) stuff I have virtual machines that are transferred just as easily. Gives me enough headroom to tinker with native installs.
 
kevgermany said:
I'm so glad I'm still on XP, even f my wife and kids have Win 7. Win 8 will have to wait a long time to get a foothold in my house. Hell, we haven't gone to Win 7 at work yet... Thank goodness.
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FWIW, Windows 7 is a significant advance over Windows XP and it's a "must have" if you need to use apps that like more than 4gb of memory. My #1 reason to like 7 over XP is that it handles file tasks much better: easier to search for stuff, easier to replace stuff. I also feel it runs smoother and supports a lot of hardware an awful lot better than XP. The only argument I can make for XP over 7 is that it does run better on older hardware. Newer hardware? I can't even install XP on my current computer. Unsupported OS. I could run it in a virtual machine, though.

SteveSklar said:
Long live Windows 3.1 !!
I've also have 2.1 somewhere ...

But I have an XP and Vista (getting to be about 4 yrs old now) box myself

at work we have 7
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I think I have 1.0 someplace. And DOS 3.3.

Vista 64-bit is actually quite good and is a significant advance over Windows XP 64-bit. One of the reasons why folks really hated Vista 32-bit is because you really need at least 8gb RAM to make Vista run smoothly. That's about 4.5gb more RAM than Vista 32-bit supports.

retread said:
The more posts I read in this thread, the more grateful I am for my Mac.
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I'm extremely fond of my Intel Core 2 Duo Aluminum 24" iMac I have at work. I've also gotta say that Mountain Lion (10.8.1) works fairly nicely. There's also some "secret sauce" in Safari to make it run much faster than in 10.6 or older and zippier than other browsers. However, I have no clue why Apple did something so stupid as to allow you to have only one app run full screen and only on one monitor. Hey, I've got three monitors, Apple!

If my boss gave me a 27" iMac, I'd have to Boot Camp it and get it running Windows. Most of the stuff I do at wok or home requires it. In some cases, there isn't even a close Mac equivalent. I also couldn't do Thunderbolt: I really do need multiple monitors and the chances of me getting a 27" Cinema Display to go with a new 27" iMac is fairly slim.

tictactux said:
For those afraid of upgrading orgies - ever since I sidegraded my "core" applications to PortableApps, moving to a different operating system (or upgrading computers) is now a question of 15 Minutes. Just copy all "my documents" plus the PortableApps root folder over to the new machine. That's it.

For the really nasty (read: business critical) stuff I have virtual machines that are transferred just as easily. Gives me enough headroom to tinker with native installs.
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There's definitely a place for portable apps (PAs) and I use a number of them ... when I need to do stuff on more than one machine. The problem with running everything portable is that you'll get a performance hit (how much varies upon the app). I'd be willing to bet that, say, booting GIMP off of my SSD in Windows 8 64-bit works a lot better and faster than if I was booting it off of a USB stick.

Several of the apps I use have no portable equivalent, with Dreamweaver being the #1 one. I also use Pagenest (free). HTTrack, the portable "equivalent" isn't that equivalent. Libre or Open Office, unless they've improved both significantly in the past couple months, are extremely slow as portable apps and aren't 100% compatible with MS Office, so I have to use MS Word and Excel. I'm all for using Thunderbird or a browser as a portable app, but even those "portable" apps do tend to store some stuff on your local hard drive, which somewhat defeats the purpose.

My USB utility sticks have a ton of portable stuff, tho.
 
pete said:
.There's definitely a place for portable apps (PAs) and I use a number of them ... when I need to do stuff on more than one machine. The problem with running everything portable is that you'll get a performance hit (how much varies upon the app). I'd be willing to bet that, say, booting GIMP off of my SSD in Windows 8 64-bit works a lot better and faster than if I was booting it off of a USB stick..
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I run it off my harddisk. :) There the performance hit is negligible.
Of course, it's not *really* portable any longer, but the updating process alone is a lot easier. Libre Office for example, IIRC, required you to do an uninstall/install cycle upon updating, dunno if that is still the case.
(I am currently working at a clever way of keeping the user data in sync across various sticks. Rsync is a friend here)
 
Everyone in my family runs Win 7 except my dad who used to be a tester at MSFT. He runs Vista. Oh, and my brother who's as poor as a church mouse. Still, he is very happy to muck on with XP.

Me, I buy my OS' only when I buy a new computer which is about every 4 to 5 years and then for around $400 each. At Amazon we use either Win 7 or whatever Apple's newest is, your choice. At new hire orientation you are given a laptop.
 
I've got the TechNet subscription, so getting any new Microsoft "productivity/OS" software is free (after paying for the subscription, of course). Mac? We've got something like a site license where I work and the two Macs (iMac and a Macbook 15" of about the same age) I have are work-only, so that OS is free, too.

(Considering that operating systems seem to be coming out on about the same cycle, I *could* just keep using free trials, but I digress.)

On average, I've been buying computer hardware about every 18 months. My general rule of thumb is to not buy a new processor/motherboard until it's twice as fast as what I had and costs the same as the original. Of course, I'm also able to move over some hardware from one box I build to another, so I can keep costs down.

My last computer purchase was a new keyboard. It's a compact Cherry mechanical. It's got a pretty nice feel, it's industrial-strength and rated for over a million keystrokes. Not bad for $20.

==========

BTW, if you happen to have an ASUS Zenbook, first, I pity you. Second, definitely get Win 8 and the latest driver updates from ASUS' website. The Zenbook works MUCH better under Win 8.
 
I've been running Win 8 beta in emulation on my mac. It's OK. It's difficult for me to get excited about an OS.

However, I prefer Unix/Linux based OS's in general. I have a problem with ML on my mac pro not letting my HD sleep without having to do a hard reset to wake it up. An annoying bug. ML runs fine on my Macbook pro (it has the newest processor, but its not a retina Mbp).

If I didn't need Windows or Mac OS for some school apps, I'd be happy using Ubuntu Studio.
 
I've installed and tested several flavors of Linux, including server stuff. My favorite was probably EasyPeasy, but development on that stopped awhile ago.

I have a couple problems with Linux:

* It's very difficult to get all of your hardware to work properly. While this has gotten better recently, if you have somewhat old or somewhat new hardware, you're gonna go nuts finding drivers. If they exist.

* I think most Linux documentation sucks. One of the reasons for that is that Linux programmers jump from point A to point Z without hitting all the letters in turn. Say you want to install a new app on a Linux box. OK. Tell me specifically how to do that. On a Mac box, software installs are generally, "Drag this file to the Applications folder" or, as it generally on a Windows box, "Double-click SETUP." Linux boxen? It varies based on the flavor of Linux you have. OK, so I'm supposed to double click, "reallylongfilename.rpm." Wait. I get an error about "dependencies." Who are they and how do I install them? I have to recompile my kernel? What?

I tend to think the reason why a lot of folks call Linux "bulletproof" is because, once you have the machine set up the way you like it, you tend to leave it that way because it was such a chore to set up in the first place. That can be a good or a bad thing.

One thing I really like about (some flavors of) Linux is the Synaptec Package Manager. It'd be nice if I could go to one website, on Mac or Windows, hit a button and get updates for a good 90% of all the apps I have installed.
 
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