Yes, it's an A. Sax bari, but ...

[pete]

Album-age: http://www.woodwindforum.com/forums/album.php?albumid=54

I got an e-mail on this, today, with nothing more than the seller's e-mail address and that it's an A. Sax bari for sale.

First, I can't say I've ever seen a sax this oxidized. Second, there is that interesting little stamp on the bell. I know it's not that great of a pic, but has anyone else seen something like that on a horn? I don't remember ever seeing it on any other A. Sax horns, much less any other make/model.

 

[tictactux]

I got an e-mail on this, today, with nothing more than the seller's e-mail address and that it's an A. Sax bari for sale.

So I am not the only one...
Well, in that case I shall look at it not as spam but as some sort of distinction. ;-)

 

[Gandalfe]

Here's some more info as I was talking to Edwidge a couple of months ago when the collect first was mentioned. I should see what QuinnTheEskimo thinks:

From: nathan.edwige@orange.fr
To: gandalfe@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: saxophone Adolphe SAX for sale
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 2010 22:08:32 +0200

> It's gorgeous and probably too expensive for me.
> How do I know you really have the instrument?
> How much is it? What would it cost to ship to Seattle.

Dear Jim

Gorgeous for you? no, why not?

after herited the woodwinds collection of our uncle collector died,
my family and me are ok to separated from this rare little jewell of history
by Sax with the same cotation we can see in the market auctions, sothebys, christies, drouot, etc

the soon edouard (1000 eur)

the father adophe:
sop 1500 eur
alt 2000 eur
ten 2500 eur
bar 3000 eur

basse 30.000 eur (3 in the world only)

you can verify in any catalog, thats the normal price, no more, not less.

you can examin and buy cash in Paris or by virment bank more secure to everybody,
and we sent to you by french post (200eur , 3 weeks) or fedex (800 eur, 2 days)

regards, Edwige.

 

[Groovekiller]

An Adolphe Sax instrument should be marked as such. The smaller bell of this baritone indicates a later model, possibly made after Sax's patent had expired, when many European makers were producing copies.

 

[pete]

This thing is so badly oxidized, I could accept that no one can see the engraving.

I have to say that I'm no expert on mid-19th century bari saxes, but I don't think I've seen a horn from someone other than Sax with the behind-the-bell low B.

I am still interested in that badge on the bell.

 

[Groovekiller]

Follow up to an old post. A potential buyer who is a friend of mine contacted me about this horn. After he forwarded more pics he requested from the seller, we determined that it is indeed an original Adolphe Sax instrument, and the price wasn't bad.

I don't know if he bought it, but I hope he did. The horn is worth more than money.

 

[SOTSDO]

Ah, the joys of a manual double octave key horn...

 

[Notes_Norton]

Many years ago, I traded some of my Band-in-a-Box aftermarket disks for an alto sax. It was nickel plated, had that very same insignia on the bell, and also said Made In Germany. I forget the date but I believe it was made in the late 1800s.

I don't know if Adolph made saxes in Germany or not.

Until this date, I've never seen another one like that. It reminds me of a wine cruet.

The sax was still shiny, but the pads were worthless and the top of the octave key (the part that moves the lever on the neck) was broken off because the person who traded it knew nothing about saxes and didn't put an end cap in it.

I tried it, the tone was decent, but not as nice as my 1925 silver plated King, and the intonation was what you would expect from an instrument that old, not very good at all.

I later sold it to a collector who was into old horns for about twice what my software at the time would have sold for.

Sorry, I can't help more than that.

Notes ♫

 

[pete]

I don't know if Adolph made saxes in Germany or not.

Allegedly, the first sax produced in Germany was a direct copy of an A. Sax instrument, which lends a bit of support to your argument. However, I saw some pics of this "first" horn (I have the link somewhere; it's an Adler) and it a) looked too new to be an A. Sax instrument and b) it was supposed to have been made ... after Kohlert started making saxophones. Yes, one could argue that Kohlert was "really" Czech, but I've heard other folks argue that Markneukirchen (I think I've got that spelled right) was always "considered" part of Germany.

 

[kevgermany]

Allegedly, the first sax produced in Germany was a direct copy of an A. Sax instrument, which lends a bit of support to your argument. However, I saw some pics of this "first" horn (I have the link somewhere; it's an Adler) and it a) looked too new to be an A. Sax instrument and b) it was supposed to have been made ... after Kohlert started making saxophones. Yes, one could argue that Kohlert was "really" Czech, but I've heard other folks argue that Markneukirchen (I think I've got that spelled right) was always "considered" part of Germany.

Sorry, a couple of corrections to the above.

Markneukichen is and always was part of Germany.

Kohlert were based in Graslitz(german)/Kraslice(czech), not Markneukirchen before they moved after WWII. Kraslice is in current day Czech republic, was orginally (as far as sax history is concerned) a part of Bohemia in the Austro-Hungarian Empire. Very close to Markneukirchen and apparantly there was a lot of exchange between the towns and others in the area (Klingenthal, for instance).

After WWI, Czechoslovakia was created and Kraslice was part of it, falling into the Sudetenland, an area which Germany considered it's own. The Sudetenland was annexed by Germany in the run up to WWII (1938), at which point Kraslice become Graslitz again. Following WWII Graslitz became Kraslice and again part of Czechoslovakia. The Germans in the area were roughly teated by the Czechs, and this, combined with the nationalisation of the musical intrument factories led to the exodus of the makers. Markneukirchen fell in what became East Germany.

However I have a Kohlert Alto (non-VKS), with a 1935 serial number, but marked with Graslitz and Sudetenland...

On the Bari, could the emblem be the coat of rms of the regiment/band it was originally made for?

 

[Groovekiller]

On the Bari, could the emblem be the coat of rms of the regiment/band it was originally made for?

Yes. Instruments made by Sax for the French army often had extra markings.