Dude. You're describing a bassoon
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Advice please!
- Thread starter akame
- Start date
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Finger holes (hopefully) explained....
Finger hole size on clarinets can vary considerably - not in absolute terms, but just enough that those with slim fingers can encounter troubles with coverage unless they are very well trained (which is something that new players are not, by definition). That's why I always insisted that the young girls who studied under me (which was not as sexist as it sounds when written out) always started out with the smaller tone holes of a Vito clarinet. Once a player is more experienced (and has developed a better concept of just where their fingers should be held and placed), a move to an intermediate or professional clarinet with larger holes is in order.
The holes on horns are, like everything else, a compromise. A larger tone hole allows the sound issuing from it to better propagate when the instrument is played. However, there is an upward limit to how large a hole can be when "stopped" by a human finger bone.
Various solutions have been arrived at by the different makers, and for the most part they work pretty well for most players. However, the further "down" the instrument the holes get (in general terms), the larger the opening needs to be to "work properly". That's why that problematic sixth hole from the top is so much larger than the first one, and here the size of your slender right hand ring finger comes into play.
Problems with tone hole coverage translate out (in the real world) into squeaking (as a hole is not fully covered acts as a sort of unintentional register key, and allows the instrument to sound a different set of vibrations (the squeak) instead of a tuned note). And squeaking results in frustration, often to the point of abandoning the instrument altogether.
The next larger clarinet in band terms to your Bb soprano instrument is the Eb alto clarinet, which sort of resembles a large tobacco pipe. In the dark days of the past, some of these were manufactured with the same open tone holes and rings (which, looking like eyeglasses from the old days, were called Brille, or "eyeglasses" in German) as on the much smaller soprano horn. The probably theory here was that the alto, with a tone quality that has been described as "vapid" by those who ought to know, would benefit from the greater projection that non-plateau keywork offers.
However, open holes on alto clarinets are (relatively speaking) of monumental size, and it takes perfect finger placement (and hefty hands) to cover them well. Yet, in many band situations, the alto clarinets are given to weaker players (who have trouble with the soprano finger coverage in the first place), the prevalent thinking being that the easy alto parts will cause them less anxiety and stress. In actuality, putting a weak soprano player on an open-holed alto is a recipe for disaster, as such players are often young girls with slender fingers.
Along about 1950 or so, the manufacturers of so-called "Boehm" clarinets wised up, and started producing nothing but plateau keywork on alto clarinets. (Bass clarinets, the next size up, already had all plateau keywork, as even the first finger hole on such an instrument is too large to stop with a human finger.) Mind you, it didn't improve the alto clarinet all that much, but at least their hearts were in the right place.
There is another clarinet between the sopranos and the alto, the seldom seen (outside of orchestra circles) basset horn pitched in F.† It is (in practical terms) just a large soprano clarinet, especially in terms of its keywork. As it is larger, the finger holes and their rings are also proportionately larger.
And, many soprano clarinet players encounter significant difficulties when they make the infrequent move over to the basset horn (usually to play true classical music by Mozart and Beethoven) and suddenly have to deal with the larger finger holes. Whenever I had to do this (using an old Selmer basset horn owned by Washington University (Saint Louis), it took me a good week of frequent practice before I was hitting the finger holes just so.
So, cheer up - it could be much worse...
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† There are actually two other "common" clarinets between yours and the alto in Eb:
One is the A soprano, frequently seen in orchestral work. (Symphonic orchestra clarinetists almost always own both a Bb and and A soprano.) On that instrument, both the finger holes and the distance between them are significantly larger than on the Bb soprano. This fact of life presents problems for some when making the switch.
The second instrument is the rarely seen (in the United States and Western Europe) clarinet in G. Used almost exclusively for ethnic Turkish and Bulgarian music, the holes and the finger spacing on these instruments are (compared to your Bb soprano) monumental. To make matters even worse, the keywork on such instruments is always of the so-called "simple" type, a variation on the original six-key clarinet that may incorporate some Boehm innovations like rings, but much of the horn's structure is that of open finger holes without rings or tone hole chimneys. I've never played one, and have only held one once, but I could tell just from the feel of the instrument that I was not cut out to play a clarinet in G.
Finger hole size on clarinets can vary considerably - not in absolute terms, but just enough that those with slim fingers can encounter troubles with coverage unless they are very well trained (which is something that new players are not, by definition). That's why I always insisted that the young girls who studied under me (which was not as sexist as it sounds when written out) always started out with the smaller tone holes of a Vito clarinet. Once a player is more experienced (and has developed a better concept of just where their fingers should be held and placed), a move to an intermediate or professional clarinet with larger holes is in order.
The holes on horns are, like everything else, a compromise. A larger tone hole allows the sound issuing from it to better propagate when the instrument is played. However, there is an upward limit to how large a hole can be when "stopped" by a human finger bone.
Various solutions have been arrived at by the different makers, and for the most part they work pretty well for most players. However, the further "down" the instrument the holes get (in general terms), the larger the opening needs to be to "work properly". That's why that problematic sixth hole from the top is so much larger than the first one, and here the size of your slender right hand ring finger comes into play.
Problems with tone hole coverage translate out (in the real world) into squeaking (as a hole is not fully covered acts as a sort of unintentional register key, and allows the instrument to sound a different set of vibrations (the squeak) instead of a tuned note). And squeaking results in frustration, often to the point of abandoning the instrument altogether.
The next larger clarinet in band terms to your Bb soprano instrument is the Eb alto clarinet, which sort of resembles a large tobacco pipe. In the dark days of the past, some of these were manufactured with the same open tone holes and rings (which, looking like eyeglasses from the old days, were called Brille, or "eyeglasses" in German) as on the much smaller soprano horn. The probably theory here was that the alto, with a tone quality that has been described as "vapid" by those who ought to know, would benefit from the greater projection that non-plateau keywork offers.
However, open holes on alto clarinets are (relatively speaking) of monumental size, and it takes perfect finger placement (and hefty hands) to cover them well. Yet, in many band situations, the alto clarinets are given to weaker players (who have trouble with the soprano finger coverage in the first place), the prevalent thinking being that the easy alto parts will cause them less anxiety and stress. In actuality, putting a weak soprano player on an open-holed alto is a recipe for disaster, as such players are often young girls with slender fingers.
Along about 1950 or so, the manufacturers of so-called "Boehm" clarinets wised up, and started producing nothing but plateau keywork on alto clarinets. (Bass clarinets, the next size up, already had all plateau keywork, as even the first finger hole on such an instrument is too large to stop with a human finger.) Mind you, it didn't improve the alto clarinet all that much, but at least their hearts were in the right place.
There is another clarinet between the sopranos and the alto, the seldom seen (outside of orchestra circles) basset horn pitched in F.† It is (in practical terms) just a large soprano clarinet, especially in terms of its keywork. As it is larger, the finger holes and their rings are also proportionately larger.
And, many soprano clarinet players encounter significant difficulties when they make the infrequent move over to the basset horn (usually to play true classical music by Mozart and Beethoven) and suddenly have to deal with the larger finger holes. Whenever I had to do this (using an old Selmer basset horn owned by Washington University (Saint Louis), it took me a good week of frequent practice before I was hitting the finger holes just so.
So, cheer up - it could be much worse...
___________________________________________________________
† There are actually two other "common" clarinets between yours and the alto in Eb:
One is the A soprano, frequently seen in orchestral work. (Symphonic orchestra clarinetists almost always own both a Bb and and A soprano.) On that instrument, both the finger holes and the distance between them are significantly larger than on the Bb soprano. This fact of life presents problems for some when making the switch.
The second instrument is the rarely seen (in the United States and Western Europe) clarinet in G. Used almost exclusively for ethnic Turkish and Bulgarian music, the holes and the finger spacing on these instruments are (compared to your Bb soprano) monumental. To make matters even worse, the keywork on such instruments is always of the so-called "simple" type, a variation on the original six-key clarinet that may incorporate some Boehm innovations like rings, but much of the horn's structure is that of open finger holes without rings or tone hole chimneys. I've never played one, and have only held one once, but I could tell just from the feel of the instrument that I was not cut out to play a clarinet in G.
Here's what clarinetists involve into within the next 10M years (and only if they believe in evolution):
See? All tone holes properly stopped. Including those on Bundy Alto Clarinets.
(I can't say what our snout will evolve (if at all) into, just focus on the fingers)
Here's what clarinetists involve into within the next 10M years (and only if they believe in evolution):
See? All tone holes properly stopped. Including those on Bundy Alto Clarinets.
(I can't say what our snout will evolve (if at all) into, just focus on the fingers)
what was this thread about ?
oh yeah .. reed placement.
This is based on the player alot of the time
try playing with the reed higher, level and slightly lower and come to your own conclusions.
It will affect the reed response and tone to certain degrees. You may hear a difference or may not .. it all comes with experience.
now back to our regular schedule talking about fat froggy fingers and tonehole size and placement ....... froggy fingers ?
And thanks to Terry for his usual great information. Did you know that Terry maintains the largest collection of Alto Clarinets in the northern hemisphere ? just kidding
Actually I was thinking about nudging him into writing the Ultimate Alto Clarinet Encyclopedia. Hey, a gifted writer like him could turn even a (subjectively) dull topic into a neck hair bristling experience.And thanks to Terry for his usual great information. Did you know that Terry maintains the largest collection of Alto Clarinets in the northern hemisphere ? just kidding
Seriously, I like your posts a lot, Terry!
That is a good question. I teach my students that when looking straight at the reed on the mouthpiece they should be able to see just a "thread" of the black tip of the mouthpiece. That said, experienced players will often adjust the vertical placement of the reed depending upon the strength and resistance of the reed.
-A reed that feels a bit soft can be put slightly beyond the tip of the mouthpiece.
-A reed that feels a bit stiff can be put slightly below the tip of the mouthpiece.
The idea is that by putting the reed higher, you are putting more of the thicker part of the reed into the area that vibrates. Conversely by putting the reed lower your are putting more of the thinner area of the reed into the area that vibrates.
Oftentimes when my "pet reed" begins to go soft, I will coax a bit more play out of it by putting it a little higher on the mouthpiece, but this only works for so long. Some players will clip the end of the reed to achieve the same effect, but I have never had good success with this technique.
Congratulations on your new clarinet. Keep us informed about your progress.