Picking up the bass clarinet

tictactux said:
One thing to keep in mind when considering a new neck for your bass clarinet is that while a steeper mouthpiece angle may be beneficial for your head position, it will in many cases make your arms shorter.
This is especially true for a former "tenor style" neck that was converted "Bay style"

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As long as you're blessed with long arms like an Orang, no problem. But if you're on the short side, you may find that your right hand now has to be operated at somewhat uneasy angle.

All I'm saying is that before you shell out big bucks for a new neck, be sure to thoroughly test the "ease of operation" with the new setup.
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Very good points, and thank you for the pics. It's a clear representation of the difference in styles.

I think I am interested in the "Bay style" design. The steeper angle seems like it would make playing the instrument so much more comfortable. And I'm wondering if it wouldn't have helped with the tuning and speaking issues I was having last October. Unfortunately most of the work I get is condensed orchestration, so I don't know when then next time I'll get the chance to explore this theory would be.
 
Something should be mentioned about neck receivers, so I'll mention it.

I've played all of four different models of bass clarinet: two plastic Vitos from probably the 1960s, a wooden Buffet that was from the 1950s and a Selmer Signet from probably the early 1970s. The Signet was different because it had a neck that had a cork end for the receiver. If the neck had to be pulled out a bit -- which it often did -- it would make the octave jump rather difficult unless the neck was lined up juuuuuust right. However, when everything was set up right, it sounded beautiful.

One of the horns I played had a two-piece neck. I can think of good reasons to have one of those, but it is a "set-it-and-forget-it" type of thing.

I think one of the cheapest, if not the cheapest low C bass is the Ridenour. $2950.
 
Ben, in your example, just curious why the mouthpiece tenons are not inserted all the way into the sockets, and why the curvier neck has the mouthpiece tenon sticking out even more than the one on the other neck (at least that is how it looks like)?
Because of the angle, the sticking out mouthpieces makes the curvier neck even higher than on the less curved neck i.e. it makes the difference bigger than it would have been with mouthpeices all the way in. This is even before you consider the mouthpiece is sticking even more on this neck, making the difference ven bigger than that.
Or maybe I'm missing something...?

I just did this test:
I play a Buffet model with the sharper angled neck. Compared with your photo, this neck seems to put the mouthpiece at an even sharper and slightly higher position than your more angled neck (by the way, the new Selmer model has the neck a bit more "squeezed" i.e. tighter curves to compensate for the curvy angle).
I'm a bit of an orang... short just under 1.70m but hands stretch close to 1.80m. I have absolutely no problem reaching any of the keys on this low C bass clarinet.
I also checked another person. This person is very short at just under 1.60m, but with hands stretch about 1.53m (i.e. short and very short hands for their height). This person had no problem at all sitting and playing this bass clarinet. Their hands were not stretched at all.

Pete, I think the Ridenour is one of the more expensive Chinese bass clarinets to low C. It's significantly cheaper than non-Chinese low C bass clarinets, but many other low C Chinese bass clarinets are cheaper.
 
clarnibass said:
Ben, in your example, just curious why the mouthpiece tenons are not inserted all the way into the sockets, and why the curvier neck has the mouthpiece tenon sticking out even more than the one on the other neck (at least that is how it looks like)?
Because of the angle, the sticking out mouthpieces makes the curvier neck even higher than on the less curved neck i.e. it makes the difference bigger than it would have been with mouthpeices all the way in. This is even before you consider the mouthpiece is sticking even more on this neck, making the difference ven bigger than that.
Or maybe I'm missing something...?
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For one thing, I couldn't be arsed to shove both mouthpieces fully in just for one shot. The reason that one mouthpiece seems stick out more than the other is that their corks have different sizes and placements.
And yes, when the mouthpieces were pushed all the way in, the difference would be less obvious, although not really that much, maybe 5 mm.
I just did this test:
I play a Buffet model with the sharper angled neck. Compared with your photo, this neck seems to put the mouthpiece at an even sharper and slightly higher position than your more angled neck (by the way, the new Selmer model has the neck a bit more "squeezed" i.e. tighter curves to compensate for the curvy angle).
I'm a bit of an orang... short just under 1.70m but hands stretch close to 1.80m. I have absolutely no problem reaching any of the keys on this low C bass clarinet.
I also checked another person. This person is very short at just under 1.60m, but with hands stretch about 1.53m (i.e. short and very short hands for their height). This person had no problem at all sitting and playing this bass clarinet. Their hands were not stretched at all.
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"Professional" models with their double register vents have quite a different geometry "up there" than single-vent models.
I tried the bay-style (not an original Bay neck) neck with a Leblanc 400 (?) bass and the different was painful. Maybe there's something with my hand, or my pinkies are shorter than average, what do I know.
The Jupiter setup (with the curvier neck) is "just right" and works for me.
 
tictactux said:
"Professional" models with their double register vents have quite a different geometry "up there" than single-vent models.
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Maybe you take some measurements on your Jupiter? Maybe looking at the bass clarinet from the side (as if it was 2-dimensional) measure from the tip of the mouthpiece (inserted all the way in) to let's say the F# key (left pointer), left E/B lever, right Bb/F key and low Eb key (or any keys you choose). I'd like to compare that with a "professional" model (and mine seems to be the "worst" in this regard).
 
clarnibass said:
Maybe you take some measurements on your Jupiter? Maybe looking at the bass clarinet from the side (as if it was 2-dimensional) measure from the tip of the mouthpiece (inserted all the way in) to let's say the F# key (left pointer), left E/B lever, right Bb/F key and low Eb key (or any keys you choose). I'd like to compare that with a "professional" model (and mine seems to be the "worst" in this regard).
Click to expand...

I just measured the (straight line) distance between mouthpiece tip and Low Eb touchpiece and RH ring Finger touchpiece (Chalumeau G). The left hand never was an issue as it is placed higher up anyway.
(I remember that the Leblanc with an aftermarket neck proved much more uncomfortable, but as I sold it I can't measure any more.)
As the "tenor style" neck requires the head to be tilted back a bit (or the steeper angle allows the chin to be nearer the breast bone) you may want to add another couple of centimeters for the steeper angled neck.

Anyhow, for my Bundy (tenor style neck), the measurements are
  • 66cm from mouthpiece tip down to low Eb touchpiece (middle)
  • 63cm from mouthpiece tip down to RH ring finger touchpiece (chalumeau G)

For the Jupiter, the results are
  • 67.5cm and
  • 64cm, respectively.

With my playing position (Bundy tilted, with peg under chair, Jupiter held more or less vertically), add ~4 cm for the Jupiter.

(measurements with neck and (same) mouthpiece all the way in)
 
And while we are at it - place your right hand on your belly button, so that the hand knuckles form a vertical line. How much further down can you move your hand so that the knuckles are still vertical?
I get ~57 cm from the tip of my chin (straight head position) to the index finger knuckle. Stretching more is nearly impossible.
Maybe my right hand radial deviation (see picture) is smaller than other people's, I don't know.
 
This is interesting. I assume your measurements are like the two longer lines in the attached photo (sorry about quality, cell phone camera). If that's correct, then on my instrument, the line to the G/D touchpiece is approx 62cm and the line to low Eb touchpiece is 66cm (65cm to the very tip of the low Eb touchpiece).

It's actually interesting that exactly those keys, from G/D down, are not closed directly by the fingers (on some instruments the A/E key isn't either). On my instrument it is a little crowded around the A/E, banana B/F# trill and G/D keys, not in any way that causes a problem to play them, but the design is careful to comfort and intonation of Bb/F (which has its tone hole close by a finger). Maybe some instruments had these keys (G/D down) a bit farther away from the others, for an easier design (less trouble trying to fit everything in a crowded area). Just a guess, maybe it's not like that at all.

Can you also measure the third line in this photo? This is perpendicular to the body, from the end of the mouthpiece socket farthest part to the part of the body farther from it, forming a right angle with the body. This is to see the "length" of the neck, regardless of height. Eventhough the Buffet is not as squeezed as the curvier Selmer neck, I'm wondering if they squeezed it some. I get 19cm on mine.
BTW I also checked the angle of the neck (mouthpiece end) relative to the body. It's not so accurate, I just put an "angle measurer" (don't know the name in English for this) next to it and it looks like it's about 50 degrees between neck end and floor.

tictactux said:
And while we are at it - place your right hand on your belly button, so that the hand knuckles form a vertical line. How much further down can you move your hand so that the knuckles are still vertical?
I get ~57 cm from the tip of my chin (straight head position) to the index finger knuckle. Stretching more is nearly impossible.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean hold the hand so the fingers are perpendicular to the stomach, with the pointer above (looking down) the others? Then move until I can't have the pointer in front of the other fingers i.e. have to turn my "hand"? If this is what you mean, it's already pretty uncomfortable when it's at my belly button and I can't move it much lower than that. If that is what you meant, I can get to about 55cm but it's pretty painful :)
But I'm pretty sure I ddin't understand your description right.
 
clarnibass said:
I'm not sure I understand. Do you mean hold the hand so the fingers are perpendicular to the stomach, with the pointer above (looking down) the others? Then move until I can't have the pointer in front of the other fingers i.e. have to turn my "hand"? If this is what you mean, it's already pretty uncomfortable when it's at my belly button and I can't move it much lower than that. If that is what you meant, I can get to about 55cm but it's pretty painful :)
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Basically you place your hand on the stomach like in the picture, and try to move it down (hand still horizontal), then measure the distance between index finger knuckle and chin (the "?" in the picture).
Basically this tells us how far down the keys on an instrument can be before it's getting uncomfortable. (of course, the hand is rarely perpendicular to the instrument's body, it's more like to get a hint how much you can flex your wrist). The smaller that measured distance, the more difficult it will be to play larger instruments (such as bari sax, or contra alto clarinet).

The Jupiter neck (from moutpiece receiver outer lip to opposite end (outer tenon circumference) is 16.5 cm "long", and the mouthpiece points 30° upwards (0° being horizontal). My Bundy has 17 cm and only 20° inclination.
 
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