What kind of Clarinet

Steve: With all due respect, if that Buffet you once owned was purchased sight-unseen, and it played okay, AND you were satisfied with it, then that's all you know about clarinets (well, except to play one well, from your description of your skills back then).

But if you have several clarinets side by side and play them all, you will soon learn that you don't know much of anything about clarinets. No accurate assumptions can be made from other's reviews nor by marketing B.S.

I've purchased MANY instruments sight unseen, and for the most part, I ended up with good players. That doesn't mean much except that I was financially able to take risks like that. But even if those horns I bought sight-unseen turned out to be good players, they often are not my first-choice horns because after buying such horns, I learned there were even better ones out there. I learned THAT from trying others before I bought them and then playing them over time in public performances.

At this point, the best advice is for you try a bunch of different models yourself. You could line up several Buffets and while all of them will probably be good, some will be better than the others.

Just because the Patricola line LOOKS good (and admittedly, the ones I played were decent), that is not the criteria you should use in selecting a clarinet UNLESS YOU CAN AFFORD TO DO IT THAT WAY! Mail-order without return privileges is risky for someone on a budget. DAVE
 
Steve,

I'm not at all familiar with the Patricola clarinets. I just perused their website and their rosewood clarinets look beautiful.

I noticed that the
5 - is a full boehm minus the low Eb
4 - is a full boehm including the low Eb
3 - regular 6 rings with the Eb lever
2 - regular 6 rings with the Eb lever

I wonder what the differences are between the 2 and the 3 ?

I have a FB clarinet - a 1950s Buffet pro model. I absolutely love it. It came in handy this past week when I was sitting in a college band - i sprained my right hand and my pinky wasn't very useful - so I covered everything with my left pinky.

I also have a partial boehm clarinet except with an inline C/G instead of the normal offset C/G ring - a Selmer CT.

anyone know of the retail prices of the Paricolas ?

but i certainly would want to play test some patricolas before deciding to actual buy one. I know buffet, and the approximate various tonal characteristics of various vintages. but i know nothing of patricolas. and if you don't kow anything about them then I recommend you try to find a place that has them first. You might want to make a short weekend vacation out of trying them somewhere.
 
Last edited:
Decisions decisions decisions

Hi All,

Agreed, sight unseen is not the best way to get a Clarinet. However I don't know of any place so far that have the Patricola's. I will try to find places of course and if anyone on this board knows of anyplace that has them please let me know.

Of course the money is a factor and so far I see the CL2 for no less than $2300.00. The R13 I've seen for no less than $2600.00 (scratch and dent from Musicians friend and other places). I know that the buffet is a good clarinet but unless I go to 48th street in Manhattan and start trying them I will have to trust the mail order system to purchase either the Buffet or the Patricola.

The other thing that makes me want to do mail order is the fact that I haven't played the clarinet in over 35 years. Will playing one now help me decide? Probably would not hurt eh? But can I really tell if that Clarinet is any better or worse than a mail order one? In my case I don't think so.

So, the next step is to ask another Clarinet player to try one out. I don't think Stanley Drucker or Stephen Topfer (his brother Alan went to PA with me) will take the time out to play it for me :-D. Just kidding though.

This is why I'm searching now and asking everyone I can ask what they think of the Patricola. If it is a good instrument, I believe that my chances of getting one directly from the manufacture is better than any other unknown brand. And of course I have to admit that the looks of the instrument has me drooling for it. I even want the rosewood color mouthpiece. I used to use a crystal mouthpiece that I don't even remember the name of but it is one that Pete Fountain used to play.

So, please beat me up, tell me I'm a fool or whatever. The more I hear from people that are on this board and other the better I can make a semi-informed decision.

I can't buy one today for sure. It will be at least a few weeks until I can afford it so my options are still open.

Geez, I don't even own a clarinet mouthpiece anymore. Actually I have a Contrabass Clarinet mouthpiece that came with me from the Army band many years ago but that isn't going to help me.

Keep sending me opinions.

Thanks,

Steve
 
The different models

Hi Steve,

I just received the Patricola catalog. the CL1 is an Eb Clarinet. the CL2 is their Bb Clarinet. The CL3 is a Virtuoso A Clarinet. The CL4 is a Virtuoso Bb Clarinet and the CL7 is a C Clarinet. Don't ask where the CL5 went to. It's not in their catalogue. The Virtusoso line are more expensive than the regular.

Steve Lewis



SteveSklar said:
Steve,

I'm not at all familiar with the Patricola clarinets. I just perused their website and their rosewood clarinets look beautiful.

I noticed that the
5 - is a full boehm minus the low Eb
4 - is a full boehm including the low Eb
3 - regular 6 rings with the Eb lever
2 - regular 6 rings with the Eb lever

I wonder what the differences are between the 2 and the 3 ?

I have a FB clarinet - a 1950s Buffet pro model. I absolutely love it. It came in handy this past week when I was sitting in a college band - i sprained my right hand and my pinky wasn't very useful - so I covered everything with my left pinky.

I also have a partial boehm clarinet except with an inline C/G instead of the normal offset C/G ring - a Selmer CT.

anyone know of the retail prices of the Paricolas ?

but i certainly would want to play test some patricolas before deciding to actual buy one. I know buffet, and the approximate various tonal characteristics of various vintages. but i know nothing of patricolas. and if you don't kow anything about them then I recommend you try to find a place that has them first. You might want to make a short weekend vacation out of trying them somewhere.
Click to expand...
 
Steve: I don't think anyone wants to beat you up, at least not me. But some of your replies failed to address the very good advice you've been given. All we can do is offer our advice, then hope it turns out good for you.

Have you tried Woodwind and Brasswind in Indiana? I recall seeing Patricola models in their catalogs. My last catalog from them (Fall '07) doesn't show that brand. I also dug out a Patricola brochure I picked up at NAMM '08. They show CL.4 and CL.5 "Virtuoso" models (Bb Boehm System) and the brochure claims all models (C, A, Bb, Eb) are available in Grenadilla and Rosewood, with choices of keywork (nickel, silver or gold-plate).

WW&BW has a return policy (at least they used to). A friend of mine just bought a new Yanagisawa SC991 soprano saxophone from them when he couldn't find a good price anywhere else. It would be worth a check. DAVE
 
More decisions

Hi All,

I only mean beat me up figuratively. I'm not insulted or anything else negatively at all.

I'm only looking for advice. I tried wwbw.com and they seem to be out of business. Somehow I believe that they are now part of Musicians Friend and they don't have Patricola's, Anyone know of any other store that sells them. I have only found one muncywinds.com and I already have a question out to them asking them if they have them and are they in stock. Hopefully they have a return policy but I won't know till tomorrow at the minimum.

Please realize that I appreciate the advice and utilize any and all information given to me.

Thanks,

Steve
 
There's a so-called collector of seldom-seen instruments living in L.A.'s South Bay area who had a G-clarinet. I don't know if he still has it, but I was in a jam session with him a few years ago when he played it. Odd voice and even odder (is that a word?) look, that.

If WW&BW went out of bin'ess, it must have been just recently. I haven't seen any comments about it, but admit that I no longer visit that other site where such things are often discussed.

For those prices (Patricolas) I guess I'd much rather have a good, used R-13. Even buying a used one and then having it overhauled would probably be cheaper than a new Patricola. OH, I could be wrong, but the old crusty R-13 in my closet plays better than the new Patricolas I played at NAMM. Not that the Patricolas were bad, mind you - they did play good, but my old R-13 was better. DAVE
 
I just went to the WW&BW website - up and running. I did not check every page and all the small print, but they had a few Patricola clarinets shown. DAVE
 
Saw the site

Dave Dolson said:
I just went to the WW&BW website - up and running. I did not check every page and all the small print, but they had a few Patricola clarinets shown. DAVE
Click to expand...

Hi Dave,

I did see the site. And I noticed in the email I got from Patricola that there is a dealer in New Jersey that might have them. There is also one in Long Island NY if necessary. I sent emails to all of them. Patricola also mentioned a few others. If anyone wants the names and addresses please send me an email and I'll forward them to you.

Thanks,

Steve
 
stevethemusicman said:
Just to let everyone know that I am or should say was an accomplished Clarinetist. 1st Chair in the High School of Performing Arts and First Chair in the 1st New York Army Band.
Click to expand...
Yah. I kinda missed that, so forgive. However, how long ago was that? Playing a clarinet really isn't like riding a bike. Playing sax doesn't = clarinet experience.

1970 = almost 40 years ago.

The R13 I've seen for no less than $2600.00 (scratch and dent from Musicians friend and other places).
Click to expand...
Yah. A used R13 can be purchased for under $2K. New? You're not gonna find one for that price.

I believe that you'll find some arguments that will suggest that a used R13 is superior to a new one and vice-versa. I haven't played enough R13's for my opinion to matter (2 Bb's and an A).

Back to my comment about 40 years ago: I mentioned that I'm a fan of Yamaha clarinets. These were just coming onto the market in the 1970's. They're worth a toot. Especially if you want to save some $. And I guarantee that almost any dealer will have the full model-range in stock.

I looked at my YCL-34 as being better than the Selmer Centered Tone I had, not quite as good as the Selmer Series 9 I occasionally played. The mid-1960's R13 I played was considerably nicer, but more difficult to keep in tune. Makes me wonder how good a Yamaha Custom clarinet is, as the YCL-34 was just the intermediate model.

However, the YCL-34 doesn't have the same feel/playibility characteristics as the Selmer Series 9 and the Series 9 doesn't have the same feel/playibility characteristics as the Centered Tone and none of them are like the R13.

Point: if you've never played a Patricola, it could be significantly different from what you're expecting. Like switching from a Yamaha to a Leblanc, for instance.

The CL4 is a Virtuoso Bb Clarinet and the CL7 is a C Clarinet. Don't ask where the CL5 went to.
Click to expand...
If you look at the Patricola website, the CL4 has a low Eb key ("full Boehm system") and the CL5 doesn't, as SteveSklar mentions. However, the random website I went to uses different descriptions and model numbers. YMMV.

I've also never heard of oiling a clarinet with "almond oil" (yes, that's on the Patricola website). Aromatic!

BTB, I did find a used Patricola HERE. That means that you still might be able to find some.
 
CL2 At Muncy

Hi,

Yes, I saw the used Patricola on Muncy's site and I have an email out to them as well as other sites that sell in America. I am going to try one out before I purchase it. However I might be in a situation where I can try a Grenadilla and want to purchase a Rosewood.

The way I feel is that if the Grenadilla plays well why shouldn't the Rosewood play as well if not better. Actually I did see (unless I was dreaming) that the Rosewood has a better sound than the Grenadilla. Hopefully the sales company for Patricola in New Jersey has them in stock and I can try the one I am going to purchase. At this point in my life (I'm almost a senior citizen) if the quality of the instrument has an Infantesimal difference (better or worse) than a Buffet, I'll be ecstatic.

I'm that way with Guitars and Basses as well. I had a Fender Jazz Bass in the 60's and also sold it for my mortgage payments. When I decided to purchase a new Bass I actually played the Fender American Jazz Bass and found that I liked the Japanese version that is called the Active Jazz Bass. Sort of a Jazz bass neck and a precision bass pickups. With the electric Guitar I only liked the feel of the American Stratocaster and bought one. But when I wanted a Gibson 335 Dot I was just as happy with the sound and playability of Epiphone version of it (I have about 15 basses, guitars etc.). And for acoustic guitar I always wanted a Martin Dreadnought but liked the sound and feel of my Ovation Adamas.

I was also talking to my wife about a sax. I had a Selmer Mark 6 and, again, for the mortgage sold it but I am not interested in another Sax. If I need sax sounds for some of my songs I have the WX5 which is enough for the sound I need for a song and not the quality of the sound/instrument. But that is a different case than why I want a clarinet. I want a clarinet because I was good and it was my first major instrument.

So very much like the above it all comes down to whether it is first and foremost a quality instrument. And secondly does it feel and sound right for me.

So I have to try out a Particola before I make any decision and I will try one out somehow.

Enough babbling for now. I just love buying stuff.

Thanks,
Steve
 
Steve: Just to keep this going, I'm not so sure that the body material (Rosewood, Grenadilla, silver-plated brass, hard rubber, etc.) makes much difference in how a clarinet sounds. This same discussion (argument?) goes on all the time with saxophones, and so it is with clarinets.

I say this because I own clarinets now in grenadilla, silver-plated brass, and hard rubber and they all sound like clarinets to me. I think the more important factors are bore and tone-hole design, the bore of the barrel, the set-up (how the pads seal), the mouthpiece, and the player.

Be especially aware when reading some company's marketing hype - that palaver is probably the least reliable in making purchasing decisions. DAVE
 
Dave Dolson said:
Steve: Just to keep this going, I'm not so sure that the body material (Rosewood, Grenadilla, silver-plated brass, hard rubber, etc.) makes much difference in how a clarinet sounds. This same discussion (argument?) goes on all the time with saxophones, and so it is with clarinets.

I say this because I own clarinets now in grenadilla, silver-plated brass, and hard rubber and they all sound like clarinets to me. I think the more important factors are bore and tone-hole design, the bore of the barrel, the set-up (how the pads seal), the mouthpiece, and the player.

Be especially aware when reading some company's marketing hype - that palaver is probably the least reliable in making purchasing decisions. DAVE
Click to expand...

Yes, you are right but I use others opinions to help me decide. However in the end I do what I feel is right and what my gut tells me. It's worked for my in about 90% of the cases for me.

Thanks,
Steve
 
I definitely recommend trying them first. I assume they have the same bore design and such, just a different material. The music on their website certainly is intriguing as the instrument has a very distinctive "ring" to it ... more like the 1960s era R13s.

To some, the material does make a difference - but more importantly the setup. But i will be experimenting with that directly myself soon in the sense of barrels.

Sensitivity to ones instrument requires alot of training. I've learned alot over time .. just try working with people in Symphony Orchestras ... it will enlighten one quite quickly on how many so minor items, which are "normal" for most people have to be attended to.

Resistance varies based on bore and tone hole design (and the tubes sticking in them).. also one can feel resistance between the upper and lower joint if they are not matched well. Certain tonal characteristics are associated with particular brands (barrel, bore, tonehole design, bell, etc) -- in addition to select woods.

Not all wood is the same as i've been learning. I had two 2x2x12 inch bars of grenadilla in my hand. one weighed easily one more pound than the other one ... why ? density I would assume. I bought the heavier one !!
but maybe some time i'll be able to experiment with different density woods too.

but as Dave says, marketing hype is that. One can't go by what a company says but have to play test it to make sure it fits to what your expectations are and what you want.

I'd play it first ... and the rosewood clarinet looks gorgeous too !!

all top end clarinets you can expect exceptional quality .. Buffet, Selmer Paris, Yamaha, Leblanc, Patricola, etc. The setup is so more important after the initial build. MuncyWinds also sells Patricola, which I would prefer MuncyWinds over WWBW. Price in inline with a regular R13 too
 
SteveSklar said:
I definitely recommend trying them first. I assume they have the same bore design and such, just a different material. The music on their website certainly is intriguing as the instrument has a very distinctive "ring" to it ... more like the 1960s era R13s.

To some, the material does make a difference - but more importantly the setup. But i will be experimenting with that directly myself soon in the sense of barrels.

Sensitivity to ones instrument requires alot of training. I've learned alot over time .. just try working with people in Symphony Orchestras ... it will enlighten one quite quickly on how many so minor items, which are "normal" for most people have to be attended to.

Resistance varies based on bore and tone hole design (and the tubes sticking in them).. also one can feel resistance between the upper and lower joint if they are not matched well. Certain tonal characteristics are associated with particular brands (barrel, bore, tonehole design, bell, etc) -- in addition to select woods.

Not all wood is the same as i've been learning. I had two 2x2x12 inch bars of grenadilla in my hand. one weighed easily one more pound than the other one ... why ? density I would assume. I bought the heavier one !!
but maybe some time i'll be able to experiment with different density woods too.

but as Dave says, marketing hype is that. One can't go by what a company says but have to play test it to make sure it fits to what your expectations are and what you want.

I'd play it first ... and the rosewood clarinet looks gorgeous too !!

all top end clarinets you can expect exceptional quality .. Buffet, Selmer Paris, Yamaha, Leblanc, Patricola, etc. The setup is so more important after the initial build. MuncyWinds also sells Patricola, which I would prefer MuncyWinds over WWBW. Price in inline with a regular R13 too
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

Yes, trying it is important. I found one at Muncy and I'm going to have them ship it to me. It is $2600.00 and they'll send it on a trial. It is the rosewood and it looks great to me. Now I have to figure out what mouthpiece to get. I'll post another thread for ideas from people. It has been so long that I'm not too sure what kind of mouthpiece (Crystal) I had and what opening I had and what is available.

Thanks for everyone's help,
Steve
 
stevethemusicman said:
Hi Steve,

Yes, trying it is important. I found one at Muncy and I'm going to have them ship it to me. It is $2600.00 and they'll send it on a trial. It is the rosewood and it looks great to me. Now I have to figure out what mouthpiece to get. I'll post another thread for ideas from people. It has been so long that I'm not too sure what kind of mouthpiece (Crystal) I had and what opening I had and what is available.

Thanks for everyone's help,
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve,

You probably had an OBrien crystal mouthpiece.

they vary like a box of chocolates
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clmpcOBrien.htm

I have 3 primary OBriens that I use - they can't be as far apart in design than one can imagine.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom