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Wood Vito - fake ?

Discussion in 'Selmer USA' started by Steve, Feb 9, 2011.

  1. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

    I've been questioned by a online person via email of the validity of a Wood Bundy seen on eBay.

    This wood Bundy has a modern looking Leblanc emblem
    with VITO in big letters, with FRANCE in small letters underneath it and a small triangle above the Vito and small triangle and horizontal line below the france (picture to follow).

    The instrument is a wood Vito.

    Similar pictures have been found on dhgate.com, which is a dumping ground for chinese manufacturers.
     
  2. SOTSDO

    SOTSDO Old King Log Staff Member CE/Moderator

    If it so plainly says "Vito" on the clarinet, why is there any confusion as to whether or not it is a Bundy?
     
  3. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

    being on dhgate isn't a good thing ..... considering you can find those fake Buffets there too
     
  4. tictactux

    tictactux Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

    I have two wooden Vitos aka "VITO VSP" aka model 7810 or 7820 (depending on configuration). They both have a plastic bell with a rounded bell ring, and a plastic barrel. The body is wood, with undercut toneholes. They absolutely rock if you ask me; these two are amongst the finest "cheap" instruments I ever had.
    If you need pictures to compare, let me know.
     
  5. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

    Ben, sure pictures would help.

    but keep in mind we have a member here that bought one of those fake Buffets.
    I'm not saying "all" wood Vitos are fake, just to be on the lookout as these have a potentially high potential of being fake.

    and I'm not going to buy it to find out either way ...
     
  6. tictactux

    tictactux Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

    Too bad, it's gone. And it was the real thing, or at least the pictures showed the real thing. <sigh>
    On the plus side, $135 saved for other goofs...
     
  7. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

    weren't the Vito VSPs leblanc made ?
     
  8. tictactux

    tictactux Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

    Yes. (isn't Vito a Leblanc brand anyway?). I read somewhere they're basically Noblet Artists in disguise (with nickel vs silver keywork and some other minor differences).
     
  9. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

    Yes but i think the VSPs were made completely in france versus the Vitos in Kenosha/Conn-Selmer

    kind of like the VSP soprano/bari saxes, made by Yanagisawa in Japan
     
  10. tictactux

    tictactux Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

    Yes, that's why they have a "France" stamp, and that's why I said they're basically Noblet Artists (which, coincidence, were made in France as well).
     
  11. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

    i can't recall which models that were shipped bodies and parts separate from france to be assembled in Kenosha. So I think the VSPs were completely assembled in France ... but i can't recall and i'm too tired to think clearly :)
     
  12. Didn't Yanagisawa make VSP tenors too? I know they made altos

    Chris
     
  13. Yanigisawa tenors stenciled for Leblanc were marketed as Martins. I don't recall any Vito VSP tenors (but, as usual, I could be wrong).

    Also, I have a vague recollection of later Vito VSP clarinets being made in the US, with elaborate bell ornamentation.
     
  14. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

    I never really tracked Yani saxes ... i wonder if anyone here knows about the Yani brand ... hey Ed :)
     
  15. pete

    pete Brassica Oleracea Staff Member Administrator

    Yani sopranos were also stenciled as Buescher Super 400's.
     
  16. tictactux

    tictactux Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

    Okay, I have taken pictures of my two Vito VSP clarinets:

    [​IMG]

    Although both came in different cases (no idea which would be the original one), they are identical enough that I think they're original (or I got two fakes...)

    [​IMG]

    This is the logo

    [​IMG]

    And some details to check. Barrel and bell are made of plastic. The bell is very distinctive as it has a round (o-ring-shaped) bell ring, not something triangular in profile.
     
  17. Thanks for the pictures.

    Hi Ben, great photos, very clear and helpful. I appreciate the pointing out the bell detail.
    Are both clarinets marked the same?
    The VITO over the FRANCE, does the "T" have a half a cross bar (like a backward seven). And is the "I" the same way, with a portion missing at the top right part of the "I"? Are all the logos the same?
    Is there a small "made in France" stamp/impression somewhere on the clarinets besides the one under the VITO?

    I'll post pictures of the models I've seen, they are different from yours. Some similarity but different, in place of the VITO is a VSP and the barrel and bell are wood.

    Yours is very similar to the one on dhgate.com but that one is all wood and brand new for $175 wholesale. I think the giveaway is the I and T on your VITO versus theirs.

    Here is the page:
    http://www.dhgate.com/ex-condi-lebl...rinet/p-ff8080812b5b59b3012b5dec06441cd7.html

    The picture here is very difficult to see but I saved a better image at a friends house. I'll post it tomorrow afternoon.
     
  18. tictactux

    tictactux Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

    Both clarinets are maked exactly the same. Each joint has a serial number near its lower tenon. The serials and the logos are the only markings.
    I checked the logos again - the one on the barrel was a victim of the stamping process, others looked better, like below (exact relative dimensions shown)
    [​IMG]

    I looked at the site you were referring to - the instruments look genuine, although I have no idea if these are just two individual instruments or really a wholesale product. I wonder why anyone might counterfeit (counterfeign? nah) a product that has been withdrawn, and one that was not produced in massive numbers...but what do we know about the inner motivation of the Chinese wholesale business. :-?
     
  19. Steve

    Steve Clarinet CE/Moderator Staff Member CE/Moderator

    the Chinese were making Albert clarinets at one time ... talk about a small market
     
  20. tictactux

    tictactux Distinguished Member Distinguished Member

    No, that were the Indians.
    BTW the "Mumbai Red Strings" are *not* a cricket team. :)
     
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