My band used only cornets for their last two gigs. We have guys who actually like playing the things.
Borrowed instruments
- Thread starter Carl H.
- Start date
My band used only cornets for their last two gigs. We have guys who actually like playing the things.
I enjoy playing cornet, particularly when the gig is Dixieland. The tone is warm, not as bright and shrill as a trumpet. And there's something intangible about it. Because of the shape I feel a vague sense of being closer to my work. My hands are closer to my face, and so is the bell and thus the sound. Go figure.
Which seems to imply that size matters. But I don't care for a pocket trumpet, so it has to be something more than that.
All that notwithstanding, when listening to a Bobby Hackett recording, for example, I cannot tell by sound alone whether he's playing cornet or trumpet. He played both.
When Bill Allred formed his Classic Jazz Band in 1990 (http://billallred.com/classicjazzband/index.php) he wanted the two trumpet players to play cornets. After one rehearsal, Charlie Bertini, the lead player, asked if they could switch to trumpets. Some of the charts are powerful with lots of high notes, and Charlie knew they'd sound better and be more playable with trumpets. It's been trumpets ever since.
Which seems to imply that size matters. But I don't care for a pocket trumpet, so it has to be something more than that.
All that notwithstanding, when listening to a Bobby Hackett recording, for example, I cannot tell by sound alone whether he's playing cornet or trumpet. He played both.
When Bill Allred formed his Classic Jazz Band in 1990 (http://billallred.com/classicjazzband/index.php) he wanted the two trumpet players to play cornets. After one rehearsal, Charlie Bertini, the lead player, asked if they could switch to trumpets. Some of the charts are powerful with lots of high notes, and Charlie knew they'd sound better and be more playable with trumpets. It's been trumpets ever since.
On the cornet thing. Many cornets can have a trumpet like sound, while some are decidely softer and mellower. The line between differing sound on some of these horns is sometimes little or nothing at all from a trumpet. I have owned many cornets, from a Conn 80a to a Bach Shepards crook, to a Martin Committee, to name just a few. All 3 have very different tonal qualities, with the Martin having the most trumpet like tone of the 3. Tonal qualities vary with the players input as well. If I want to sound as shrill and strident as a trumpet, I can do so quite easily on many a cornet. Most of it comes down to the desired effect. Cornets are usually the choice for a softer sound, but I have heard some great trumpet players laying down some "butta". Again, it usually comes down to the guy at the end of the horn.
As for lending horns. I deal with that on a 1 to 1 basis. I have known many players that I wouldn't lend my used chewing gum. And on the other hand, I have known many people I would lend anything. Most of these people would NEVER ask to borrow something, which is why I trust them so implicitly. A perfect example is my friends who recently gave back my YTS62 that I had lent to their son. After much coaxing, they agreed to allow their son to use the horn. This came about because they had purchased a poorly treated Conn 16M, and after much frustration on the boys behalf trying to play on this abused 16m, I could no longer bear to watch it. I dearly wanted this boy to have a decent horn to play. I knew that if anything happened to the horn, they would make it right. I also knew their son would take good care of it, and he did. He used the horn for his entire senior year of high school, and advanced to 1st chair with their jazz program. I knew he had it in him, he just needed a little help, or better yet, less of a handicap. I really don't know if his enthusiasm would of overcame that 16m, and allow him to flourish as he did. It also helped to show my friends the need for a quality horn, even for a beginner. I just helped them purchase a Yamaha Allegro alto for their younger son. He now has a horn that will serve him well for many a year.
Would I lend a horn, you're damn right I would, maybe. =)
As for lending horns. I deal with that on a 1 to 1 basis. I have known many players that I wouldn't lend my used chewing gum. And on the other hand, I have known many people I would lend anything. Most of these people would NEVER ask to borrow something, which is why I trust them so implicitly. A perfect example is my friends who recently gave back my YTS62 that I had lent to their son. After much coaxing, they agreed to allow their son to use the horn. This came about because they had purchased a poorly treated Conn 16M, and after much frustration on the boys behalf trying to play on this abused 16m, I could no longer bear to watch it. I dearly wanted this boy to have a decent horn to play. I knew that if anything happened to the horn, they would make it right. I also knew their son would take good care of it, and he did. He used the horn for his entire senior year of high school, and advanced to 1st chair with their jazz program. I knew he had it in him, he just needed a little help, or better yet, less of a handicap. I really don't know if his enthusiasm would of overcame that 16m, and allow him to flourish as he did. It also helped to show my friends the need for a quality horn, even for a beginner. I just helped them purchase a Yamaha Allegro alto for their younger son. He now has a horn that will serve him well for many a year.
Would I lend a horn, you're damn right I would, maybe. =)
Another professor has asked to borrow an instrument, this time a sopranino sax. Fortunately I have a $1000 Mason Pro that I bought to check out whether I could play it and play it well enough to justify a high-end model. So while I won't lend out my Yanigasawa Elimona sopranino, I will lend out this other one.
This time though, and having just gone through a number of 'free' loans to friends, I asked the professor for $100 for the two months. Kinda high, but she can't get the instrument anywhere else and the school budgeted some money for this. As soon as I mentioned the rate, the professor slowed down on the request and questions. We'll see what happens.
It's funny, when it's free everyone's in a hurry. As soon as rental and insurance is mentioned, the pressure seems to let off very fast.
This time though, and having just gone through a number of 'free' loans to friends, I asked the professor for $100 for the two months. Kinda high, but she can't get the instrument anywhere else and the school budgeted some money for this. As soon as I mentioned the rate, the professor slowed down on the request and questions. We'll see what happens.
It's funny, when it's free everyone's in a hurry. As soon as rental and insurance is mentioned, the pressure seems to let off very fast.
$100 for a speciality instrument I don't think would be out of the question.
After all, $100 for insurance ... self-insurance I assume won't go far to take out a dent or something if there was an accident - much less the then "damaged" look afterwards.
After all, $100 for insurance ... self-insurance I assume won't go far to take out a dent or something if there was an accident - much less the then "damaged" look afterwards.
It may be a moot issue because as soon as I responded to her question about the rental cost, she stopped writing me. I need to use that from now on because if you're willing to pay for the rental and insurance, you probably are legit.
I agree that $100 is WAY too low. That's about a monthly rate for "odd" instruments, if you have a very kind store owner. I think renting a bari was $80 a month about 5 years ago.
I think of it in another way: I'm letting you use my horn. I'm assuming you're an incredibly responsible person, but just say you accidentally damage the horn. I need to take the time out of my day to take the horn into the shop and I can't rent out the horn to someone else, while it's in the shop. You want to at least cover this.
Further, if the horn was a custom-made one or a vintage instrument, your damage could seriously impact the resale value.
By the way, my YBS-52? I had let my former instructor borrow it on many occasions, but I also borrowed HIS horns on a lot of occasions. If you have an arrangement like that, there's value to you. Hey, I might trade for lessons or something.
I think of it in another way: I'm letting you use my horn. I'm assuming you're an incredibly responsible person, but just say you accidentally damage the horn. I need to take the time out of my day to take the horn into the shop and I can't rent out the horn to someone else, while it's in the shop. You want to at least cover this.
Further, if the horn was a custom-made one or a vintage instrument, your damage could seriously impact the resale value.
By the way, my YBS-52? I had let my former instructor borrow it on many occasions, but I also borrowed HIS horns on a lot of occasions. If you have an arrangement like that, there's value to you. Hey, I might trade for lessons or something.
As some people have mentioned ... I would never let anyone in direct competition or what I perceive as direct competition borrow a horn and I don't foresee what a exception to that rule could be so I think "never" is pretty accurate.
As far as lending that doesn't involve competition, 90% of circumstances I wouldn't lend my horns to anyone. Exceptions include Andy Ballantyne (not that I have anything he would want to borrow yet, but you know ... someday) because he lends his horns to me and there's a few SELECT others I would consider.
Finally, for the moment, in my personal circumstance, I completely disagree with the if you don't own the horn, don't take the gig -- it's unprofessional ... whatever.
I bought my first horn 5 years ago ... I now own 5 - averaging one per year so far. As much as I would love to go out and drop 25K+ on horns I want to own someday, I just can't do it.:-(.
So yes, If I can rent or borrow a intermediate-pro horn and play it at the level it demands, you bet your ass I'm taking that gig.
I play as many musicals as the powers will be will let me get my hands on. If I can cover the book technically and musically, I will hunt down whatever instruments I need - even if it involves some sort of mythical quest, or several!!
As far as lending that doesn't involve competition, 90% of circumstances I wouldn't lend my horns to anyone. Exceptions include Andy Ballantyne (not that I have anything he would want to borrow yet, but you know ... someday) because he lends his horns to me and there's a few SELECT others I would consider.
Finally, for the moment, in my personal circumstance, I completely disagree with the if you don't own the horn, don't take the gig -- it's unprofessional ... whatever.
I bought my first horn 5 years ago ... I now own 5 - averaging one per year so far. As much as I would love to go out and drop 25K+ on horns I want to own someday, I just can't do it.:-(.
So yes, If I can rent or borrow a intermediate-pro horn and play it at the level it demands, you bet your ass I'm taking that gig.
I play as many musicals as the powers will be will let me get my hands on. If I can cover the book technically and musically, I will hunt down whatever instruments I need - even if it involves some sort of mythical quest, or several!!
Open grate...
My nice alto sax is on loan right now. Young local pro who really needed a good alto for a steady gig.
I figure the worst thing that can happen is he loses or wrecks it. So what...it's just stuff, right?
OTOH, lending it has given me the excuse to get out to some great jazz shows I would have otherwise missed, and I've been happy to hear his super positive response to the sax.
Then there's the whole karma thing...what is it...play it forward?
Rory
I figure the worst thing that can happen is he loses or wrecks it. So what...it's just stuff, right?
OTOH, lending it has given me the excuse to get out to some great jazz shows I would have otherwise missed, and I've been happy to hear his super positive response to the sax.
Then there's the whole karma thing...what is it...play it forward?
Rory
Well, as mentioned, I have had a couple instruments of mine that were borrowed stolen. The stuff that was involved was:
* I had to teach a couple lessons on bari when I should have been playing tenor.
* I had to teach a couple clarinet lessons with ... well, my other horn. The clarinet that was stolen had some sentimental value, alone.
* I lost a rather nice tubular metal sax stand, meaning I really didn't have anyplace to put my bari -- that was the one I didn't have a case for.
... and the person that borrowed the instruments didn't have the cash to repay.
Now, when I loaned out my YBS-52 to the friend I mentioned earlier, his school district eventually bought the horn from me -- I gave 'em a good discount over new. Then again, I also had donated a pro clarinet and I refinished and donated a rosewood bass drum to his orchestra ....
* I had to teach a couple lessons on bari when I should have been playing tenor.
* I had to teach a couple clarinet lessons with ... well, my other horn. The clarinet that was stolen had some sentimental value, alone.
* I lost a rather nice tubular metal sax stand, meaning I really didn't have anyplace to put my bari -- that was the one I didn't have a case for.
... and the person that borrowed the instruments didn't have the cash to repay.
Now, when I loaned out my YBS-52 to the friend I mentioned earlier, his school district eventually bought the horn from me -- I gave 'em a good discount over new. Then again, I also had donated a pro clarinet and I refinished and donated a rosewood bass drum to his orchestra ....