Keep and fix, or go with new.

Tammi said:
I apologise for my outburst.

None of the comments or remarks were aimed at anyone here.
They were gripes in general based on personal experience.

I shall now put myself in time out.
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I was about to drop you a PM, but I couldn't have said it better than Gandalfe.

Besides, and honestly, in our daily life we're used to the occasional use of increased volume, and our families keep us used to controversies. No big deal. Let's get over it.

On the brighter side, and ever so slightly back to topic, I finished a wooden Vito this evening, one I picked up for some 20-odd bucks at a cyber yard sale. OMFG, what a horn! It's the second sweetest instrument in my humble collection and it plays like a dream.
(Plus, along the same lines, I, well, uhm, found a Bundy-designed-by-Bach Cornet for less than $10, cleaned and lubricated it, gave it to our band's cornetist for a test honk which fared favourably. Then the 1st trumpet trotted along and more or less confiscated the instrument over the weekend. I'm not sure I'll see it again...)
So the next one badmouthing student instruments will get at least a stern look accompanied by some coarse language. :geezer2:
 
Can I ban everyone? Please? I can ban Jim, too, if I work at it ....

* Ahem *

The one comment that I will make regarding the actual question asked in this thread is that no one has yet identified what kind of Noblet dash2008 has. At least, I didn't see that when scanning this thread. As I mentioned awhile back, if it's a student horn (which dash thinks it may be) and has a lot of damage, it's not worth repairing, period. A used, but overhauled, Yamaha or other student/intermediate horn would be a good alternative. However, we haven't even seen the horn, so we have no idea what condition it's in. My opinion is that all it needs are new pads, corks and felts and that's cheaper than buying a used clarinet. Usually :).

I also support the idea about getting lessons -- if at all possible. You can always learn something from someone else that's better than you -- and there's always someone better than you. I *was* a pro and I played for *longer than* 17 years ... and I still took lessons when I was a pro. However, there's nothing "wrong" with not taking lessons and just playing in a community band (or whatever), it's just that you could get a lot better a lot quicker with lessons than just going to band practice. Hey, I'm a veteran of a lot of church choirs. The lat one I was in had appx. 100 members. About 6 of us took private lessons.

Oh. I again highlight that a really good mouthpiece is a good purchase.

FWIW, SOTSDO = Terry and Gandalfe = Jim. They're different people.

========

TTT, I had a metal Pan American clarinet that I bought on a lark for about $5 -- with case. While it could have used an overhaul, it had a very sweet sound.

Vito doesn't automatically = student junk. Just considering all the professional model Vito saxophones that were out there, I wouldn't be that surprised to find some pro Vito clarinets.
 
Pete,

now it's getting interesting. I think that "student instrument" doesn't mean the same everywhere. Here, for example, the Noblet Artist has been the 'budget' student horn here, along with E-13 and the Yamaha 450. Less won't do, better have them kids buy an RC or an Odyssée if budget permits...I doubt any kid here would want to be caught dead with a Bundy or a Vito.
(Amazingly enough, the rate (per capita of the population) of excellent clarinetists here isn't significantly different than in any other comparable part of the world).
Yet each time I imported a "student instrument" for some lousy 20$, overhauled it, had the barrel shortened a bit (A=442 here) I got positive feedback on sturdy well-sounding instruments. So, with the limited experience I may have, it's not the instrument per se, but rather the care in setting up (and supplying a suitable mouthpiece) that makes the difference, or a significant part thereof. (I'm well aware that silk purses aren't made of sow's ears)

In my book, a student instrument's purpose is not primarily to "be cheap", but first and foremost to facilitate the entry into the musical world, with as little obstacles as possible, without necessarily skimping on quality and tone. In a way, like mp3 just skips the unheard bits of a piece, stuff that only a zealot with very good ears might discern.

If "student instrument" means "being so cheap that the chagrin is limited when the kid decides to quit after half a season", then yes, we face a compromise in quality. But that would mean to give your kid an unsharpened pencil for learning to write, no?

So, if you have any Noblets and other junk gathering dust, send 'em over...
 
I get your point, but, IMO, there are clarinets and other instruments that are just designed to be cheap. This then spawns the question of what instruments are cheaply priced but play like quality instruments?

I'm not going to single-out a manufacturer at the moment, but there are a few. "Big-name" brands generally = some degree of quality. Hey, didn't we have a thread about how some older Bundys were good horns? I'm also the guy that says that the big plus about the Bundy II sax is that you could run it over with a tank and it'd play in tune.

(However, I could be referring to the tank.)

Again, not denigrating the quality of Noblet or whatever, but my above comment is accurate: it's sometimes not cost effective to repair an instrument. And that's generally more the case for a student instrument than a pro horn. Why? Say a new student Noblet is $5,000. You have it for 20 years and you've got a couple cracks in the joints and the tenons are chipped. $10,000 repair. Great. Go out and buy a new horn. However, that pro model Noblet is $100,000. A $10,000 repair doesn't look like all that much in comparison.

If you hadn't noticed, I'm making up numbers :).

Now, there are also some repairs that I might have someone attempt on an expensive pro horn that I wouldn't want done on a student horn, like cracks in a joint or damaged tone holes. Not only are they probably not cost effective, your horn might be unplayable after the repair.

For a repairman that has access to all the tools and supplies, it migh be a no-brainer and very cost-effective thing for you to completely repad a horn or replace all the keywork, etc., but the laity can't do that ....

I'm still sticking with my wife's 20+ yo wooden Signet 100 :).
 
OK- need to know!

SOTSDO and Gandalfe are separate. Good.

But, really - the replies to Debbie regarding a newly prospective community band player, wishing to recoup an active involvement after many years of absence, in order to play with her child (or at least in support of her child)?

Frankly, people in charge here on the Woodwind Forum? You have all become engrossed in your elitist attitude! There are many of US who just want to play. For the sheer enjoyment of being able to do so, at whatever poor level of accomplishment.

I am disappointed greatly in the progress of this thread. Good night.

While I will continue to monitor this forum for information regarding vintage instruments - I do not think that new or "rejuvenated" players will get much practical advice on this site.
 
jhu6569 said:
SOTSDO and Gandalfe are separate. Good.

But, really - the replies to Debbie regarding a newly prospective community band player, wishing to recoup an active involvement after many years of absence, in order to play with her child (or at least in support of her child)?

Frankly, people in charge here on the Woodwind Forum? You have all become engrossed in your elitist attitude! There are many of US who just want to play. For the sheer enjoyment of being able to do so, at whatever poor level of accomplishment.

I am disappointed greatly in the progress of this thread. Good night.

While I will continue to monitor this forum for information regarding vintage instruments - I do not think that new or "rejuvenated" players will get much practical advice on this site.
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#1, considering I do run this forum, as do, what, four other people posting in this thread, I'd strongly recommend that you confine your comments about how we run it to PM or e-mail.

My opinion is that you took a couple comments out of context and you've gotten your knickers in a twist. I recommend getting them untwisted before you post again. Is that clear, jhu?
[/ADMIN_POWERS]

#2, I fail to see your point. Turning your comment in on itself, isn't it a bad thing to know you could be better if you had a working instrument and better mouthpiece and didn't do anything about it? That's what it sounds like you'd want to do. Hey, both TTT and I mentioned that you can get cheap horns and play decently on them -- provided they're in decent repair and you've got a decent mouthpiece. (BTB, while my C85/120 is now $165, I traded a Vandoren B40 for it -- which I paid all of $20 for at that time.)

Seriously: one of the worst things that happened to me, as a beginning player, is that I was not told that I could get a different mouthpiece or reed and that made me give up the clarinet for a couple years. That wouldn't have happened if I had a real clarinet teacher.

I think I've elaborated nicely on my other points in previous posts, so I'll let those stand. If anyone has any comments/questions/requests for clarification, I'll be happy to add them.
 
thank you

Well I had no idea that my post would cause such passionate responses. But thank you. You all gave me some very good insight and thoughts. What i will probably do is take my clarinet in, have it checked out, see what can be done and then decide to repair or go with something else. I do have a VanDoren mouthpiece i bought in college and that still plays on my son's clarinet nicely. I really had no idea that a Noblet could be such a good instrument. I had always assumed it was a beginner's since I had it since 5th grade. Oh and by the way, I did play for 17 yrs before putting it away, but that doesn't mean all those years in school. My post did say i played all through school and in total 17 years. So for a few years after college in my church orchestra. So don't get a headache trying to figure that one out.

Thanks for all the ideas. I don't know if i will take lessons. There is certainly the opportunity here with a university and an excellent music department, symphony, etc. But I'll take one step at a time. I want to start again, but at the present the extra expenses will go for my sons' lessons should they want them.

I plan on hanging out here for awhile. You guy/gals are certainly interesting, but artistic types always are!
 
The Noblets are fine clarinets and considered intermediate. Since it is yours for a long time there usually is an emotional attachment, and many players prefer to get their old clarinet up to spec.

for more information about the Noblets go here
http://www.clarinetperfection.com/clsnLeblanc.htm#EmblemNoblet

You could have a model 27 (plastic bell and or barrel), or the 40, 45 or 45 artist. The 27 being more moderately priced and the 45 artist more for the aspiring professional. All larger bore clarinets. The 45s and older oval emblem 40s are some of my favorites.

get your old clarinet up to date, your fingers and ergnomics will be 2nd nature instead of feeling the minute differences between that and a new clarinet. :)
 
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