jbtsax said:
Remember the title of this thread is "Why Yamaha for Students".
Not my title even though the thread is attributed to me.
I do have a note on the original post that I split this from my thread which was just a "Wanted to Buy" ad. Sorry for any cofnusion.
Al Stevens said:
Not a comparison, but to make a point. Horns manufactured in days of yore by now-defunct companies are still being played and maintained today. I had a 1919 Buescher tenor unplayable with original everything including cloth pads. The overhaul cost what any overhaul costs and did not take a long time. Parts are available. A ninety-year-old saxophone made by a company that went away over forty years ago plays like new today.
And I had a 1919-ish Wurlitzer alto (Conn stencil) and it was ... average. I also have played 1940's era Conn Cavaliers and a host of Pan Americans. They ranged in quality from "junk" to "below average". The point I'm making is "old" doesn't necessarily equal "great". And, if you're comparing professional models to student models, that can be an apples to oranges comparison. (Although I do think the YAS-23 would blow away a lot of professional models from the 1920's.)
Al Stevens said:
A saxophone as an investment? Those were the good ol' days.
I don't think those days ever existed.
A Selmer Mark VI alto in 1957 cost $455, according to the catalog I have. That's a little under $3500 in today's money. And that's a bit higher than the average price that Mark VI altos sell at.
Now, that doesn't necessarily mean that new prices don't go up. I bought my YBS-52 in 1989 for $1800. The YBS-52 is now a shade under $4600 -- calculating only inflation rate says it should only be about $3100 (which is around what a used one sells for, according to a brief eBay search). Well, I did get it on sale.
And those are for Selmer and Yamaha: those are big brand names. A Conn New Wonder cost $190 in 1922 for a full Artist's Special gold plate finish (the Virtuoso Deluxe was special order). That's about $2300 in today's money. They haven't sold for that in a long while.
The point saxophones, at best, retain their value. The exceptions are only the extremely rare models, like contrabasses and Buescher's tipped bell horns.
Of course, this is another topic and has no real bearing on student horns: student horns rarely retain their value.
A Lot of Different Folks said:
Based on the comparison pics that I've seen on SOTW, Barones seem to be P. Mauriat copies and/or made at the same place -- and Barone mentions on his website in big type that the horn is Taiwanese.
I think one model of Barone wasn't P. Mauriat-esque, but some other manufacturer. I don't specifically remember. I remember I commented that the Barone in comparison to the P. Mauriat, at least in the pictures I saw, wasn't as well formed or assembled. (Gandalfe posted in that thread, too, so he might remember the linky.)
In any event, the Barone saxophones are cheaper than the Yamaha 23 and are priced a little cheaper (on average) than the P. Mauriat student/intermediate horns. (I can also say that there's a closed eBay ad for a student model P. Mauriat, 8 months old -- and looked it -- for $950. That's about $600 less than new).
Lots of people said:
Again, my point wasn't necessarily that you could order parts or hunt down the dealer for a different horn, it's "immediate availability". Like, "I've got a concert tonight and the octave key broke". With a YAS-23, you probably have the part lying around. You don't have to wait 6 weeks to order.
Connical said:
There will be plenty of good sources down the road, but not for everything. I'm sure Barone and Kessler products will be available. But imagine this scenario. What if Phil died tomorrow ? (Heaven forbid) How long will it take before some confusion sets in. Today if I have a question, I pick up the phone and call Phil. Question answered. What about tomorrow ? This is when a new tech, seeking answers will get confused. Where do I go ? Who made this ? There will be techs who know these answers tomorrow. But like today. If you walk into 100 repair shops and ask them questions about that Truetone, not every one will have the knowledge and experience to help you out. This is why a Truetone would be a poor choice for a student (among many), since that student would have to know a good tech with the necessary experience to help them out. Since we are talking about student horns, the last thing a clueless student needs, is a tough time finding a knowlegable servicer.
+1. Excellent post.
Al Stevens said:
Connical said:
Yamaha consistentcy assures me that they will still be in demand later on
What else would you expect them to say?
You misinterpreted this, Al. How about, "Yamaha's consistent quality throughout their various product lines makes me believe that their products will always be in demand"?
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[admin_hat=ON]
Everyone, please tone down the sarcasm -- or at least tag your posts "[ban_me_now]" ... I mean "[sarcasm]". a) People who don't speak English as a native language aren't going to understand your sarcasm and b) Some of the posts here aren't sarcastic and aren't meant to be.
Additionally,
try to stay somewhat on topic. Remember, this thread is about STUDENT horns. It's great that, say, a Reference 36 is going to retain a lot of value 50 years from now, but how does that compare with a LaVie?
Personally, I don't care about getting whatever horn: I'm not buying one. A beginner might want to look here for some good advice, though. Keep that in mind.
Thanks!
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