Actually Sonderklasse really means special class.
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Prettiest Sax of the Moment
- Thread starter pete
- Start date
Actually Sonderklasse really means special class.
I did say, "According to Google Translate ...."
Oddly, it's now translating as "Special Class." Hmm.
This site is SEO'd to death. It could be that Google found my translation and compared its definition to one of the good translation sites out there, and corrected itself.
Speaking of SEO'd to death, at the bottom of this page is a list of words and phrases people used to get here. One of those phrases is kind of amusing:
Pete,
Do you know the price for a bass saxophone? I have been proposing to get one, but I have to make sure I am getting the right model, brand, and a good deal at the right price.
Do you know the price for a bass saxophone? I have been proposing to get one, but I have to make sure I am getting the right model, brand, and a good deal at the right price.
First, you might want to start a different thread for just that subject. No need to hijack mine.
Second, you've asked a question that's pretty similar to, "Do you know the price for a station wagon?" Are you looking for vintage or new? How much do you want to spend? What kind of music do you play? Do you have something in particular in mind that you want our opinion about? What's your expertise level?
Helen, Groovekiller, Gandalfe, and a few other folks here own and/or have used a variety of makes and models of bass saxophones. They'd have the best information to compare horn A to horn B. I can, in general, say that the new horns from Benedikt Eppelsheim are quite highly regarded -- there's enough eye-candy on his website to definitely qualify for this thread -- and I obviously point folks his way.
There are a lot of companies that currently make or have made bass saxophones, so you've got an awful lot of choices.
Second, you've asked a question that's pretty similar to, "Do you know the price for a station wagon?" Are you looking for vintage or new? How much do you want to spend? What kind of music do you play? Do you have something in particular in mind that you want our opinion about? What's your expertise level?
Helen, Groovekiller, Gandalfe, and a few other folks here own and/or have used a variety of makes and models of bass saxophones. They'd have the best information to compare horn A to horn B. I can, in general, say that the new horns from Benedikt Eppelsheim are quite highly regarded -- there's enough eye-candy on his website to definitely qualify for this thread -- and I obviously point folks his way.
There are a lot of companies that currently make or have made bass saxophones, so you've got an awful lot of choices.
I still prize the "meatiness" of the Conn tone, so much so that I characterize it as the "American" style of saxophone, over the "French " style of Selmer and so many others. Not that there's anything wrong with either style, just a personal preference, if you will.
I looked for years to find a Conn baritone that matched my alto for "guts", but every one that I tested was stuffy and dull, no matter wha the mouthpiece and reed combiation. The only one that even came close to a keeper was a real dog of a horn, one that had been poorly spraypainted and usec as a wall hanging. And, I wasn't about to pay for the overhaul of that piece of work...
I looked for years to find a Conn baritone that matched my alto for "guts", but every one that I tested was stuffy and dull, no matter wha the mouthpiece and reed combiation. The only one that even came close to a keeper was a real dog of a horn, one that had been poorly spraypainted and usec as a wall hanging. And, I wasn't about to pay for the overhaul of that piece of work...
The Great Gretsch American C Melody.
This is a very, very nice looking satin silver horn and the finish looks about as nice as if it was brand new. However, I'll disagree with the eBay'er: the horn's not by Martin, but by EA Couturier.
This is a very, very nice looking satin silver horn and the finish looks about as nice as if it was brand new. However, I'll disagree with the eBay'er: the horn's not by Martin, but by EA Couturier.
A nice, early gold-plated, extensively engraved Eb alto. (I'm fairly sure it's an A. Sax instrument, but I didn't go to the museum's webpage to verify.)
Facebook linky. Many more pics.
Facebook linky. Many more pics.
I don't know where the instrument is now, but that is the adolphe sax alto pictured on page 138 of "Adolphe Sax - His Life and Legacy" by Wally Horwood
Definitely looks close enough. In my copy, at least, the pic is in black and white and has the caption, "Eb alto saxophone, among the instruments which gained First Prize at the Paris Exhibition of 1867." (FWIW, the book is out-of-print and a hard cover sells between $123 and $2,500. There's a Kindle version for ... $9. Highly recommended. Oh. I'll sell my hardcover for, say, $1000.)
The poster wrote that he saw the horn at Musée De La Musique, which is in Paris. They have a website with pics from a lot of their collection, but it's in French, which I don't read or speak, so it takes me awhile to navigate.
The poster wrote that he saw the horn at Musée De La Musique, which is in Paris. They have a website with pics from a lot of their collection, but it's in French, which I don't read or speak, so it takes me awhile to navigate.
I am sorry that this will be buried within this thread - but a huge thanks to Pete for pointing to the kindle edition of the Adolphe Sax biography.
I am just finishing reading it now, and it is absolutely fascinating.
If they can make a movie out of the life of the artist Turner, they could make the stories in this book into a gripping blockbuster! Industrial espionage, rivalry malice, royal patronage, bankrupcy and recovery, bizarre inventions, touches of madness and genius in an extraordinary life.
Someone write that screen play!
Chris
I am just finishing reading it now, and it is absolutely fascinating.
If they can make a movie out of the life of the artist Turner, they could make the stories in this book into a gripping blockbuster! Industrial espionage, rivalry malice, royal patronage, bankrupcy and recovery, bizarre inventions, touches of madness and genius in an extraordinary life.
Someone write that screen play!
Chris
Early 1950's Kohlert Regent Stencil. Nickel plate is 98% or better.
Quoting the original ad:
=======
Umständehalber muss ich meine Saxophon-Sammlung verkleinern und biete daher eine absolute Besonderheit an.Nach dem 2. Weltkrieg verlagerte Kohlert seinen Produktionsstandort von Graslitz nach Winnenden/Württ. und wagte dort ab 1949 mit einigen Graslitzer Mitarbeitern einen Neuanfang.
Das hier angebotene Sondermodell ist eine Co-Produktion von Kohlert und vermutlich Max Keilwerth und wurde nicht in Serie sondern nur in sehr geringen Stückzahlen gebaut.
Nachstehend die wichtigsten Besonderheiten:
- aufgelötete Tonlöcher (sehr dickwandig) mit breiten Tonlochrändern (siehe Bild 11), ähnlich wie bei den alten Martin-Saxophonen (USA)
- Becherklappen sind linksseitig angebracht
- sämtliche Drücker sind aus echtem Perlmut und in tadellosem Zustand; auch die Klappenröllchen sind unbeschädigt
- Korpus, S-Bogen (mit Feststellschraube in Tropfenform), Position und Form der Marschgabelhalterung, die Applikation und auch der Koffer sind Keilwerth-typisch
- Klappenschützer in sehr dekorativem Design, Becher hat eine sehr schöne Gravur und ist im Inneren vergoldet (nicht lackiert)
- Seriennummer 3107 (K&C), um 1955 gebaut, das Instrument ist generalüberholt (neue Pisoni Premiumpolster, neue Korken etc.)
- technisch und optisch in TOP-Zustand, Versilberung zu 100% gut erhalten, kein Abrieb, keine größeren Kratzer und keine Dellen, frei von üblem Vintage-Geruch, kein Mundstück dabei
- leichte Ansprache über die gesamte tonale Bandbreite, ausdrucksstarker Ton, Applikation liegt gut in der Hand und lässt sich schnell und bequem spielen, Originalkoffer mit Wappen noch gut zu gebrauchen
=======
I didn't say the quote would be in English.
While I really like the theory the seller has, that Kohlert and Keilwerth "collaborated" on these horns, I don't see any evidence. The Julius Keilwerth horn that had soldered tone holes and left-side bell keys looks considerably different and I don't think any of Max Keilwerth Hohners have left-side bell keys. Not to mention that I have another horn that's stamped "Kohlert Regent" and looks practically identical. And, of course, neither of the Regents have a Max Keilwerth "Pure Tone" stamp or a Julius Keilwerth "Best in the World" stamp.
Quoting the original ad:
=======
Umständehalber muss ich meine Saxophon-Sammlung verkleinern und biete daher eine absolute Besonderheit an.Nach dem 2. Weltkrieg verlagerte Kohlert seinen Produktionsstandort von Graslitz nach Winnenden/Württ. und wagte dort ab 1949 mit einigen Graslitzer Mitarbeitern einen Neuanfang.
Das hier angebotene Sondermodell ist eine Co-Produktion von Kohlert und vermutlich Max Keilwerth und wurde nicht in Serie sondern nur in sehr geringen Stückzahlen gebaut.
Nachstehend die wichtigsten Besonderheiten:
- aufgelötete Tonlöcher (sehr dickwandig) mit breiten Tonlochrändern (siehe Bild 11), ähnlich wie bei den alten Martin-Saxophonen (USA)
- Becherklappen sind linksseitig angebracht
- sämtliche Drücker sind aus echtem Perlmut und in tadellosem Zustand; auch die Klappenröllchen sind unbeschädigt
- Korpus, S-Bogen (mit Feststellschraube in Tropfenform), Position und Form der Marschgabelhalterung, die Applikation und auch der Koffer sind Keilwerth-typisch
- Klappenschützer in sehr dekorativem Design, Becher hat eine sehr schöne Gravur und ist im Inneren vergoldet (nicht lackiert)
- Seriennummer 3107 (K&C), um 1955 gebaut, das Instrument ist generalüberholt (neue Pisoni Premiumpolster, neue Korken etc.)
- technisch und optisch in TOP-Zustand, Versilberung zu 100% gut erhalten, kein Abrieb, keine größeren Kratzer und keine Dellen, frei von üblem Vintage-Geruch, kein Mundstück dabei
- leichte Ansprache über die gesamte tonale Bandbreite, ausdrucksstarker Ton, Applikation liegt gut in der Hand und lässt sich schnell und bequem spielen, Originalkoffer mit Wappen noch gut zu gebrauchen
=======
I didn't say the quote would be in English
.While I really like the theory the seller has, that Kohlert and Keilwerth "collaborated" on these horns, I don't see any evidence. The Julius Keilwerth horn that had soldered tone holes and left-side bell keys looks considerably different and I don't think any of Max Keilwerth Hohners have left-side bell keys. Not to mention that I have another horn that's stamped "Kohlert Regent" and looks practically identical. And, of course, neither of the Regents have a Max Keilwerth "Pure Tone" stamp or a Julius Keilwerth "Best in the World" stamp.
That is exactly the way JK fastened the necks on their Series III Tonekings and The New Kings. I have an alto and a tenor like that. It works well.
Oh, I should mention that Pierret had a model called the Vibrator... OK, no jokes guys.
... That had no neck fastening screw at all. Only the tenon in the socket provided the seal. Pete, maybe I'm missing something, but what makes you say that the silver alto is a Regent stencil? FWIW, I also think it is shiny silver plate, not nickel.
Linky in my post: http://thesax.info/piwigo/index.php?/category/1136. That's a Regent. It's engraved on the bell. Both are in great shape and look very similar, so you might have thought you saw the same horn.
Re: silver or nickel, I have seen some really, really shiny silver horns, but nickel -- in good shape, of course -- is generally shinier. Unfortunately, as far as me determining the plating type is concerned, I don't see any tarnish of any kind. If there was a spot of purplish/brownish/blackish tarnish, I'd definitely say silver. I don't think the plating would have any effect on the value, anyhow, because there don't appear to be too many of them.
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I'm totally confused now. Yes, I see the word Regent on the bell of sax in your gallery. But when you provided the link to the original eBay ad, I thought that was the same horn. Where did the one you have in your gallery come from?
Never mind the last statement, I recognize the source of the pics by their background. That dealer has some interesting horns all the time. He dropped me a note once, but when I responded to him, he ignored me.
Never mind the last statement, I recognize the source of the pics by their background. That dealer has some interesting horns all the time. He dropped me a note once, but when I responded to him, he ignored me.
Nope two different ones.
Engraved "Kohlert & Co., Regent," sn 4114.
Engraved "Kohlert & Co., Winnenden-Wurtt.," sn 3107.
