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The Upgrade Thread

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
I knew you had one. My Zune's currently gathering dust: bad battery.

Allegedly, it's got full CSS support and can be significantly customized. Fortunately or not, I don't have time to do that.

============

By the bye, I have also heard that it's a server drain to have too many Styles. That means that we'll have to pare them down at some point.

The ones I installed today are very pretty, but they have a server-intensive graphical background.
 

tictactux

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
By the bye, I have also heard that it's a server drain to have too many Styles. That means that we'll have to pare them down at some point.
Why would that be? A css is a mere collection of text files that a browser downloads and caches.

What's potentially bad is all the eye candy with the envelope, arrow and other symbols. When the images come from a database and not from the file system, that's even worse.

Re usability: Did you ever try the new SOTW on a netbook with some 1024x600 resolution?
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
One thing I don't have is a Netbook. I do have a "Slate" computer: it's a non-touchscreen (you use a dedicated stylus) tablet that's essentially page sized.

If you have issues with the NEW forum, TTT -- WF, not SOTW -- send me or attach a screenshot so I can see what it looks like.

(However, on SOTW, you're probably having a problem with the advertisements and how they're placed.)

You may have noticed that some themes on vbulletin.org are labeled "fixed" or "fluid". These have distinct meanings: "fixed" means that the theme was designed to work at a specific resolution. "Fluid" means that it has a "base" resolution (generally 1024xwhatever [doesn't matter]), but the width will expand and contract with whatever resolution you're using -- or however big you've made the window.
 

tictactux

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
One thing I don't have is a Netbook. I do have a "Slate" computer: it's a non-touchscreen (you use a dedicated stylus) tablet that's essentially page sized.
There's a rather simple trick to "emulate" one. Just create a white (or whatever colour) background image of the required dimensions, make it displayed "centered" (not stretched nor tiled) and resize the application window to that size. Bingo - 1024x600 no problem.
(However, on SOTW, you're probably having a problem with the advertisements and how they're placed.)
Actually exactly that was what triggered my post. :)
I don't have any problem right now, and if I do, I'd be much more specific and probable PM you...
 

Gandalfe

Admin and all around good guy.
Staff member
Administrator
I'll try to remember tonight (sent myself an email). I wanna try it on my Imagio too. Very cool Pete. Wish I'd thought of it. Aaron, let me know how it is on your cell.
Zune is only an MP3/Video/Radio device. I have gen 2 and not the Zune HD.

Works albeit crazy slow on my Verizon Imagio with it's underpowered process and too small RAM.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
You don't have the wireless one with the browser? Dude! Even the one I have has wireless! (I probably can get a hacked browser ....)

I tested on my Crackberry and the Style didn't "set": I'd have to make it that user's default, it seems, or the user would have to set it to "default". Now, there's also the "Archive" link (which is available here, as well), and that is all text-only, but you can't reply to the posts.

So, anyhow: my iPhone 3gs working on wireless loads it up in less than 30 seconds -- I don't have phone service, so I dunno how fast the 3gs AT&T network would load it. My Crackberry Curve loads the regular forum over the phone network in about 45 sec and the archive in under 10.

Impressive. Most impressive.

I'm planning on a "How to use the Forum" thread in the near future and I'll try to get it into the "read this before you register" thingy, so folks know we're Mobile friendly.
 

Helen

Content Expert Saxophones
Staff member
Administrator
I apologize if this has already been covered, I didn't see it here if it was, but there are a couple of quirks with the new SOTW platform that have been happening over the past day or 2 that I'm wondering about. Quite a few posters, myself included, have had posts vanish into cyberspace.

For example, yesterday I posted a message about not being able to see attachments to posts anymore since the upgrade. (Another hiccup that some of us, but not all apparently, are experiencing.) Now all I get is a paper clip. This happens in all browser (IE, Firefox, Chrome, Opera, & Safari), and on both my laptop and my PC. When I went back to check what others had replied to my post, my post was gone, as were the 2 immediately before it which had been posted on the same day as mine.

Have you heard anything about either of these issues Pete through V Bulletin? Or through any of their forums that you may have gleaned info on?
 

tictactux

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
Quite a few posters, myself included, have had posts vanish into cyberspace.
<raises hand> So did I.

First I was thinking about a parallel universe, as I posted stuff from a different computer than when I tried to follow-up later, and vice versa. But since parallel universes don't exist there must be some database issue, or some locking problem (eg. what happens when two people post at roughly the same time) or some HTTP issue (browser fails to supply a necessary cookie or a POST variable), I don't know.

Issues like these are the reason why I deem the risk of running an older "unsupported" version for a limited time to be smaller than the risk of upgrading to a new "dot zero" version. BTDTGTT.

Unfortunately for Harri, nothing destroys trust more thoroughly than unreliable systems, and I've already seen some farewell posts. :-(
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
I apologize if this has already been covered, I didn't see it here if it was, but there are a couple of quirks with the new SOTW platform that have been happening over the past day or 2 that I'm wondering about. Quite a few posters, myself included, have had posts vanish into cyberspace.

For example, yesterday I posted a message about not being able to see attachments to posts anymore since the upgrade. (Another hiccup that some of us, but not all apparently, are experiencing.) Now all I get is a paper clip. This happens in all browser (IE, Firefox, Chrome, Opera, & Safari), and on both my laptop and my PC. When I went back to check what others had replied to my post, my post was gone, as were the 2 immediately before it which had been posted on the same day as mine.

Have you heard anything about either of these issues Pete through V Bulletin? Or through any of their forums that you may have gleaned info on?
Paper clip? No. Pencil icon, yes. That's a known random bug that's supposed to be fixed in 4.0.2. (I have been checking the vBulletin bug reports threads.)

I mentioned to the Admins, here, that I noticed that there's a recommended change in how to store attachments in 4.0.x: you should store them in a directory, rather than in the forum database. I tried this on our test forum and, not only does it work, it works a lot faster. That could be why SOTW has been havening problems with attachments: they didn't change the setting. That's just speculation, tho.

Regarding posts just going *poof* if two people post to the same place at the same time, I haven't heard of that, but I can test it -- or you can: all you have to do is open the same thread in two different browsers (so each has your credentials) and try to post two different things at the same time and see what happens. It might be interesting :).
 

tictactux

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
I mentioned to the Admins, here, that I noticed that there's a recommended change in how to store attachments in 4.0.x: you should store them in a directory, rather than in the forum database. I tried this on our test forum and, not only does it work, it works a lot faster.
<cringes>
Storing files in databases. Ugh. Why? Yeah, because we can. (not because it'd be a wise thing to do). Arrgh. That's just asking for trouble. Files belong into the file system, data into a database.
 

Gandalfe

Admin and all around good guy.
Staff member
Administrator
<raises hand> So did I.

First I was thinking about a parallel universe, as I posted stuff from a different computer than when I tried to follow-up later, and vice versa. But since parallel universes don't exist there must be some database issue, or some locking problem (eg. what happens when two people post at roughly the same time) or some HTTP issue (browser fails to supply a necessary cookie or a POST variable), I don't know.
I've been on those threads with you Ben. When I get an email that you have replied and shows your comment, I go to the link and your comment isn't there. I've had at least two (I post about 3 times a month) posts disappear and wondered if I'd said something unacceptable to one of the mods. Glad to see I'm not the only one with that problem.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
Well, I tested posting at exactly the same time and I got some interesting results. No posts missing, but interesting results. I've mentioned them to vBulletin and I'm waiting for a response.

I also did a search of their bug tracker for disappearing posts and (maybe because they've disappeared) I can't find any.

I can say that I've run across about a half dozen threads about attachments, while searching for the "disappearing posts" phenomenon, and all of them were fixed by changing the setting I mentioned in my above post.

===============

4.0.2 is scheduled to be released on February 4. That weekend will probably be the time that I'd do the upgrade. 4.0.2 allegedly fixes over 200 bugs. However, I want to also see if there's any response to my posts to vBulletin, as well.
 

Helen

Content Expert Saxophones
Staff member
Administrator
I don't know if this applies, but here's what Harri wrote this AM, and he this about mentions attachments:

All data since the dawn of the history (2003) is there. Old are attachments are still there, but something went wrong in attachment conversion. I have asked vBulletin support to help in this.
Under the category of vanishing posts, Kim noted the following:

Yes we are aware of this - Some of my posts and PMs have disappeared too - It's just some database problem which, when restored, we lost some bits along the way.
Thankfully, this sort of thing doesn't happen often.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
Well, that confirms that I was right about their attachment issue ....

Additionally, I kinda thought some of SOTW's more recent functions were Mods ("hacks"). There were quite a few announcements from vBulletin that said, "Your vBulletin 3 Mods will not work in vBulletin 4. No ifs, ands or buts. The vBulletin 4 Mod system is completely different."

The only Mod that we have is one to give y'all the ability to see all albums, which is now built-in to vBulletin 4.
 

tictactux

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
Well, I tested posting at exactly the same time and I got some interesting results. No posts missing, but interesting results. I've mentioned them to vBulletin and I'm waiting for a response.
Well, I hope you can understand my rather conservative approach (about not fixin' what ain't broken) a bit better...just be patient and wait for the 2nd or third bugfix wave before you upgrade. I know, utterly un-modern and backwards-oriented. But the Matterhorn didn't cease to exist just because the Mount Everest was discovered.
Just be patient. Things evolve, and eventally settle.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
I get your point, TTT. However, I don't want to wait so long that it's going to be extremely onerous to upgrade. Or that it gets to a point where vBulletin (the company) says, "3.8.4? We can't support you. Go away."

The inner workings of the vBulletin upgrade are cumulative: I install 3.8.4pl2 (what we have right now), then 5 vBulletin 4.0 alpha installers, then 5 vBulletin 4.0 beta installers, then 5 4.0 RC1 installers ... you get the point.

4.0.2 is, then, about the 40th or so version of vBulletin 4. I hope I can get it installed in under an hour.

In any event, we're not going to 4.0 until I'm satisfied I can get it working. The 3.8.4 forum will stay around for a little while (as mentioned in a previous post), just in case there is a problem and we'll switch back if there is, until vBulletin can fix it. Hey, we're paying 'em, so they can do some work.

============

I again request that the folks that haven't gone to the test forum do so:

www.woodwindforum.com/vbtest2

I can't fix problems that aren't reported!
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
'kay a nitnoid. On the current version we use more width of the screen, which for the various sizes of monitors I use (19" or bigger). But the new version doesn't seem to take full advantage of the width of the screen. It that a change or had you tweaked something in the 3.8 version?
Read my above post regarding "fixed" and "fluid" themes. The one you're using is "fixed". If you switch to the forum default, for instance, it takes up the whole screen ("fluid").

No, I can't make a fixed theme fluid. There has to be a new theme created. Sorry 'bout that.

FWIW, the Pro Green SEO theme you're using looks pretty good on a 23" Apple Cinema Display at 1920x1200 :p.
 
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