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The Upgrade Thread

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
BTB, I will not do the upgrade this weekend, even if it comes out and it's bug free: I've gotta work.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
Allegedly, every six weeks they'll have an incremental update -- e.g. 4.0.3. 4.1 isn't on the schedule.

FWIW, I think a good 75% of the problems ANY forum has had with 4.0 has been pilot error: not reading the instructions correctly or at all (I base this on my own experience and reading comments on vbulletin.com). The other 25% is divided equally between poor documentation and actual bugs.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
... 4.0.2 was released today. It's not available for users, yet, but it's installed on vBulletin.com.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
Well, I tested posting at exactly the same time and I got some interesting results. No posts missing, but interesting results. I've mentioned them to vBulletin and I'm waiting for a response.

I also did a search of their bug tracker for disappearing posts and (maybe because they've disappeared) I can't find any.

I can say that I've run across about a half dozen threads about attachments, while searching for the "disappearing posts" phenomenon, and all of them were fixed by changing the setting I mentioned in my above post.

===============

4.0.2 is scheduled to be released on February 4. That weekend will probably be the time that I'd do the upgrade. 4.0.2 allegedly fixes over 200 bugs. However, I want to also see if there's any response to my posts to vBulletin, as well.
Well, I didn't get a response, but they did post that this is a verified bug. 4.0.2 may fix this issue.

FWIW, this is an extremely difficult bug to reproduce: two or more folks have to post to the same thread at exactly the same time. Out of 6 attempts, I was able to get an error once -- and both posts didn't disappear: one just got posted with some misc. code, as well.

Anyhow, definitely a problem and could be a real headache if you have lots of traffic. Hopefully will be fixed in 4.0.2.

Partial list of fixes in 4.0.2:

• [Ads] Quote and Advert in First post content
• [Search] "Find All Threads" by person
• [IE6] All remaining IE 6 Compatibility issues
• [CSS] CSS Caching Bugs
• [BB Codes] BB Codes tags should count against minimum text requirement
• [Lightbox] Date and name overlap in the Lightbox if the picture is relatively small
• [Tags] Edit Tags Degradation -> You cannot add any tags. Please remove some first.
• [Fixed Width] Doc Width - bug #35038
• [Signatures] <p> cannot be used to enclose signatures
• [Languages] Stripped characters - ä,ö,å
• [Settings] User link broken in Settings -> New Visitor Messages
• [Polls] Fixed issue with poll question too long error
• [Groups]: The "View All Groups" page needs significant improvements
• [Hook] Hook Member-Action Dropdown items unset problem
• [Updated UI] User Settings Pages
• [Updated UI] Registration Screens
• [Updated UI] Advanced Search Pages
• [Updated UI] Moderation Pop-up Menu
• [CMS Query Count] Reducing CMS Query Count - Phase 2
• [Language Support] Additional Charset Support
• [CMS Import] CMS Impex [Beta]
• (new) [CMS] Articles can be sorted "Alphabetically", "
• (new) [CMS] Added Pagination to Section Pages. Pagination replaces the "View All" link.
• And about 100 more bugs.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
I've got bad news for fans of vBulletin 4.0.x.

I discovered a bug in the search engine that essentially makes the search engine worthless. I reported it to vBulletin, which confirmed it and confirmed the bug is also in the new version (4.0.2) that is supposed to be released tomorrow.

Considering that a search engine that works properly is kinda important, I am putting the upgrade on hold until it's fixed -- and there's currently no ETA on that. I'd assume that it'll be fixed in 4.0.3, which will be released in appx. 6 weeks, or may be fixed in time for the 4.0.2 update -- or may be fixed much, much later.

I really feel for the really large websites that have already switched -- and I'm talking bigger than SOTW: they either have to put up with the bugs or try to get Google Forum Search to work with 4.0.x.

Updates will be posted as they become available.

Finally, please g'head and test the new forum. While I've been doing a lot of testing, I've noted only about 1/2 dozen folks testing the new forum. I might be missing something that someone else sees as a problem.
 

Helen

Content Expert Saxophones
Staff member
Administrator
The search feature is highly over-rated. :emoji_smile:

What's the most commonly written statement on SOTW?. I believe it to be: "Use the search fuction". Well I guess now people will have a valid reason for asking the same questions over again.

It's kinda' surprising that no one picked up on this before with all the V bulletin boards floating around out there. Like Gandalfe said Pete, good catch.
 

Ed

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
I think it's a great idea to wait out issues like this. Who is to say what else people find in the next few weeks.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
The search feature is highly over-rated. :emoji_smile:

What's the most commonly written statement on SOTW?. I believe it to be: "Use the search fuction". Well I guess now people will have a valid reason for asking the same questions over again.

It's kinda' surprising that no one picked up on this before with all the V bulletin boards floating around out there. Like Gandalfe said Pete, good catch.
Thanks.

As I've mentioned, I used to be a moderator and admin at SOTW. I was there when they had the non-searchable eesites forum. I did minor polling of what features people wanted in a different forum software: a good search function was the feature most often mentioned. Amusingly, when we got that search function, lots of members kinda ... forgot ... that it was there. For other folks (like me) who have been on other "advanced" forums that have a search engine, it's irreplaceable.

Interestingly, the error is extremely apparent if you have a medium-size to large forum. The way I caught it was that I was cruisin' through vBulletin's forum and I found a post saying, "If I search for $something on my new forum, I get X responses. If I search for something on my old forum, I get Y responses -- and Y is correct." So I did a comparison search on THIS (the 3.8.4) forum and the 4.0.1 forum and found that there was a marked difference in results, even if I took into account the fact that the new forum is using posts from over a month ago. I then played around with some other search features and found that THOSE didn't work, either.

FWIW, and in full disclosure, I've spotted and reported three vBulletin 4.0 bugs and two of those have been reproduced and are being fixed. The third hasn't been reproduced. Yet. When I did beta testing for Windows 7 -- remember, 7 was a beta, vBulletin 4.0 is a full version -- I only spotted two bugs and (sorry, Jim) those haven't been fixed yet, either.

Another nail in the coffin: Google search for forums doesn't yet work for vBulletin 4.0.x.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
But you can work around the no search engine thing by using the string 'site:www.woodwindforum.com/forums findme' in the browser search box.
Sorry; I don't know what this means. Google search code?

===========

Update on the Search problems: it's ugly. Really ugly. I went to check out the latest reported bugs on vBulletin and it now appears that if you search for certain keywords, you'll get an SQL error. Search for others, you get a nice blank page. That's bad. However, they say that they have fixed a lot of the problems in the (now delayed) 4.0.2 release. Opinion: they'll be fixed in 4.0.3 or later.

I'm far from an SQL or php coder -- I know enough to make me dangerous on both -- but it looks like the entire search code is screwed up. I dunno why, as it was working in 3.8.4 just fine. It's possibly because vBulletin decided to graft on their blog and CMS products. That's why I think it'll take awhile.
 

Ed

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
The search thing will have to be fixed before we go live with an upgrade. I'm guessing we're looking at 4.0.3 or 4.0.4 before things get taken care of with the code.

As always, many thanks to Pete for taking the lead on this upgrade.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
Did you try it Pete? 'site:www.nameofsite.C0M searchword'
Well, it's not very clear, Jim. Gotta remember that I'm taking too many meds to think deeply.

If you go to Google.com, or if you have a newer browser that has a search engine entry area, you can type in something along the lines of what Jim has mentioned (another example: site:www.woodwindforum.com/forums "mark vi") and you'll find stuff from that website only. However, the one big problem is that the results are only as updated as the last time Google spidered the website.

It shouldn't be searching the 4.0.x website at all -- or at least it shouldn't spider anything except, say, the front page. The reason is that I've turned off new registrations :).
 

tictactux

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
It shouldn't be searching the 4.0.x website at all -- or at least it shouldn't spider anything except, say, the front page. The reason is that I've turned off new registrations :).
Dont underestimate the powers (or stupidity or perseverance) of google. I never announced my page there, but for some reason it managed to find its way there...
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
As far as forum behavior is concerned, there are a variety of "bots" that "register" and can be allowed to spider (index) your forum. When you have a fully open forum, like this one, it can access all forums that are accessible by folks with read privileges. However, on the test forum, it looks like its account has "expired" and needs to "re-register".

Or it just really hates the new database :).

I did check and Google is only pulling up hits for stuff that's on the "main" page of the test forum, but pulls up most things here.

As I've mentioned, we do have a "storage" area for posts/threads that the CEs or Admins might want to look at later. I've been told that if the place where they are can't be searched via the search feature by normal users, Google can't get to it. This implies, of course, that Google can't see your Private Messages, for instance.

Additionally, you can throw a file called "robots.txt" into a directory that you don't want indexed and it doesn't get indexed.
 

pete

Brassica Oleracea
Staff member
Administrator
Sometimes, I like being right.

I posited that, considering that vBulletin was having so many issues getting 4.0.x fixed, they'd extend support for 3.8.x. They are.

3.8.5 will be available sometime next month. It's just a bug fix and I will install it when it's available, unless a version of 4.0.x is then available that fixes all the problems documented here.
 

Ed

Founder
Staff member
Administrator
They should just call it "classic" and make people happy. :)

I'm looking forward to the new release but am not happy that they attempted to force people to it before it was really ready for prime time.
 
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